The Captain: 26 new messages in 8 topics

sci.military.naval
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.military.naval?hl=en

sci.military.naval@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Cut & Runners
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.military.naval/browse_thread/thread/5f8b43a305714f00?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 16 2008 7:22 am
From: "La N"

"Vince" <firelaw@firelaw.us> wrote in message
news:S3Bpk.39$482.27@trnddc06...
> Don T wrote:
>> "William Black" <william.black@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:g86ihk$cj4$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>>>
>>> "tankfixer" <paul.carrier@gmail.comm> wrote in message
>>> news:MPG.230fbb956c84ca8e989f13@nntp.earthlink.net...
>>>> In article <dnpba45mkonsiepqlm971e5eppefei50d3@4ax.com>,
>>>> Jas.HoggOUT@SPAM.gmail.com says...
>>>
>>>>> That's correct. Georgia attacked South Ossetia, a part of Georgia
>>>>> where a majority of the people had said that they did not want to
>>>>> belong to Georgia (and do so even less now than when they voted
>>>>> in favour of independence in 2006).
>>>>
>>>> South Ossetia, where that majority only arrived about 40 years ago from
>>>> Russia.
>>>
>>> The bulk of the South Asian community in the UK only arrived in the past
>>> 40 years.
>>>
>>> It doesn't mean we can shoot them if we feel like it.
>>>
>>> --
>>> William Black
>>>
>>
>> You couldn't shoot them if you felt like it anyway. Your nanny state has
>> taken away your guns and you no longer have the means to resist. Poor
>> serfs. Before your nanny state can get the guns back in the hands of
>> honest Englishmen the Island will be taken by the Muselman Invader. Just
>> as they tried to do in forgotten by you centuries.
>>
>
>
> Gabby Johnson and authentic frontier gibberish
>

Give everybody a gun! That'll fix everything!

- nilita

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 16 2008 7:29 am
From: Peter Skelton

On Sat, 16 Aug 2008 14:22:16 GMT, "La N"
<nilita2004NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>"Vince" <firelaw@firelaw.us> wrote in message
>news:S3Bpk.39$482.27@trnddc06...
>> Don T wrote:
>>> "William Black" <william.black@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:g86ihk$cj4$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>>>>
>>>> "tankfixer" <paul.carrier@gmail.comm> wrote in message
>>>> news:MPG.230fbb956c84ca8e989f13@nntp.earthlink.net...
>>>>> In article <dnpba45mkonsiepqlm971e5eppefei50d3@4ax.com>,
>>>>> Jas.HoggOUT@SPAM.gmail.com says...
>>>>
>>>>>> That's correct. Georgia attacked South Ossetia, a part of Georgia
>>>>>> where a majority of the people had said that they did not want to
>>>>>> belong to Georgia (and do so even less now than when they voted
>>>>>> in favour of independence in 2006).
>>>>>
>>>>> South Ossetia, where that majority only arrived about 40 years ago from
>>>>> Russia.
>>>>
>>>> The bulk of the South Asian community in the UK only arrived in the past
>>>> 40 years.
>>>>
>>>> It doesn't mean we can shoot them if we feel like it.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> William Black
>>>>
>>>
>>> You couldn't shoot them if you felt like it anyway. Your nanny state has
>>> taken away your guns and you no longer have the means to resist. Poor
>>> serfs. Before your nanny state can get the guns back in the hands of
>>> honest Englishmen the Island will be taken by the Muselman Invader. Just
>>> as they tried to do in forgotten by you centuries.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Gabby Johnson and authentic frontier gibberish
>>
>
>Give everybody a gun! That'll fix everything!
>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCtD3OJ-_Es

(Arrogant Worms again)

Peter Skelton

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 16 2008 7:30 am
From: "La N"

"Peter Skelton" <skeltonp@cogeco.ca> wrote in message
news:90pda4tga6flkspjiug5kge2ig6t8k871d@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 16 Aug 2008 14:22:16 GMT, "La N"
> <nilita2004NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Vince" <firelaw@firelaw.us> wrote in message
>>news:S3Bpk.39$482.27@trnddc06...
>>> Don T wrote:
>>>> "William Black" <william.black@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>> news:g86ihk$cj4$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>>>>>
>>>>> "tankfixer" <paul.carrier@gmail.comm> wrote in message
>>>>> news:MPG.230fbb956c84ca8e989f13@nntp.earthlink.net...
>>>>>> In article <dnpba45mkonsiepqlm971e5eppefei50d3@4ax.com>,
>>>>>> Jas.HoggOUT@SPAM.gmail.com says...
>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's correct. Georgia attacked South Ossetia, a part of Georgia
>>>>>>> where a majority of the people had said that they did not want to
>>>>>>> belong to Georgia (and do so even less now than when they voted
>>>>>>> in favour of independence in 2006).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> South Ossetia, where that majority only arrived about 40 years ago
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> Russia.
>>>>>
>>>>> The bulk of the South Asian community in the UK only arrived in the
>>>>> past
>>>>> 40 years.
>>>>>
>>>>> It doesn't mean we can shoot them if we feel like it.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> William Black
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You couldn't shoot them if you felt like it anyway. Your nanny state
>>>> has
>>>> taken away your guns and you no longer have the means to resist. Poor
>>>> serfs. Before your nanny state can get the guns back in the hands of
>>>> honest Englishmen the Island will be taken by the Muselman Invader.
>>>> Just
>>>> as they tried to do in forgotten by you centuries.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Gabby Johnson and authentic frontier gibberish
>>>
>>
>>Give everybody a gun! That'll fix everything!
>>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCtD3OJ-_Es
>
> (Arrogant Worms again)
>

Yee Haw!

- nilita

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 16 2008 7:49 am
From: "Andrew Chaplin"

"Peter Skelton" <skeltonp@cogeco.ca> wrote in message
news:90pda4tga6flkspjiug5kge2ig6t8k871d@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 16 Aug 2008 14:22:16 GMT, "La N"
> <nilita2004NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Vince" <firelaw@firelaw.us> wrote in message
>>news:S3Bpk.39$482.27@trnddc06...
>>> Don T wrote:
>>>> "William Black" <william.black@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>> news:g86ihk$cj4$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>>>>>
>>>>> "tankfixer" <paul.carrier@gmail.comm> wrote in message
>>>>> news:MPG.230fbb956c84ca8e989f13@nntp.earthlink.net...
>>>>>> In article <dnpba45mkonsiepqlm971e5eppefei50d3@4ax.com>,
>>>>>> Jas.HoggOUT@SPAM.gmail.com says...
>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's correct. Georgia attacked South Ossetia, a part of Georgia
>>>>>>> where a majority of the people had said that they did not want to
>>>>>>> belong to Georgia (and do so even less now than when they voted
>>>>>>> in favour of independence in 2006).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> South Ossetia, where that majority only arrived about 40 years ago from
>>>>>> Russia.
>>>>>
>>>>> The bulk of the South Asian community in the UK only arrived in the past
>>>>> 40 years.
>>>>>
>>>>> It doesn't mean we can shoot them if we feel like it.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> William Black
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You couldn't shoot them if you felt like it anyway. Your nanny state has
>>>> taken away your guns and you no longer have the means to resist. Poor
>>>> serfs. Before your nanny state can get the guns back in the hands of
>>>> honest Englishmen the Island will be taken by the Muselman Invader. Just
>>>> as they tried to do in forgotten by you centuries.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Gabby Johnson and authentic frontier gibberish
>>>
>>
>>Give everybody a gun! That'll fix everything!
>>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCtD3OJ-_Es
>
> (Arrogant Worms again)

Hyping the hometown acts again, I see.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 16 2008 8:33 am
From: Peter Skelton

On Sat, 16 Aug 2008 10:49:09 -0400, "Andrew Chaplin"
<ab.chaplin@yourfinger.rogers.com> wrote:

>"Peter Skelton" <skeltonp@cogeco.ca> wrote in message
>news:90pda4tga6flkspjiug5kge2ig6t8k871d@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 16 Aug 2008 14:22:16 GMT, "La N"
>> <nilita2004NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Vince" <firelaw@firelaw.us> wrote in message
>>>news:S3Bpk.39$482.27@trnddc06...
>>>> Don T wrote:
>>>>> "William Black" <william.black@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>>> news:g86ihk$cj4$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "tankfixer" <paul.carrier@gmail.comm> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:MPG.230fbb956c84ca8e989f13@nntp.earthlink.net...
>>>>>>> In article <dnpba45mkonsiepqlm971e5eppefei50d3@4ax.com>,
>>>>>>> Jas.HoggOUT@SPAM.gmail.com says...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's correct. Georgia attacked South Ossetia, a part of Georgia
>>>>>>>> where a majority of the people had said that they did not want to
>>>>>>>> belong to Georgia (and do so even less now than when they voted
>>>>>>>> in favour of independence in 2006).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> South Ossetia, where that majority only arrived about 40 years ago from
>>>>>>> Russia.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The bulk of the South Asian community in the UK only arrived in the past
>>>>>> 40 years.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It doesn't mean we can shoot them if we feel like it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> William Black
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You couldn't shoot them if you felt like it anyway. Your nanny state has
>>>>> taken away your guns and you no longer have the means to resist. Poor
>>>>> serfs. Before your nanny state can get the guns back in the hands of
>>>>> honest Englishmen the Island will be taken by the Muselman Invader. Just
>>>>> as they tried to do in forgotten by you centuries.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Gabby Johnson and authentic frontier gibberish
>>>>
>>>
>>>Give everybody a gun! That'll fix everything!
>>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCtD3OJ-_Es
>>
>> (Arrogant Worms again)
>
>Hyping the hometown acts again, I see.

Where home is very loosely defined. They moved out west when they
graduated Queen's around '94.

Peter Skelton

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Russians give President Bush's " Bold Move" In Georgia the "finger"
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.military.naval/browse_thread/thread/cf5f9e9c2c2c7ee8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 16 2008 7:27 am
From: Jack Linthicum

On Aug 16, 10:19 am, Earl <ne...@nowhere.net> wrote:
> William Black pisze:
>
> > "Jack Linthicum" <jacklinthi...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >news:cfe6a963-f7f2-465c-a8dd-6868ab2ecf80@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> Which Russian sub is seaworthy, able to make enough knots to beat the
> >> CVN to the Straits, has any training within the last five years in
> >> intercepting and sinking a 100,000 ton ship? It will take them three
> >> days just to rig the thing for sea.
>
> > I think there's a 'Kilo' in the Black Sea fleet.
>
> > If this is serious I'd imagine it's already on the way...
>
> > If they can get it running.
>
> Well, you have already aided something noticeable to this discussion! In
> fact Russia's Black Sea Fleet now possesses two conventional submarines:
> one 877M "Kilo" sub with experimental pump-jet propulsion and one 641B
> "Tango" sub but the latter apparently is not seaworthy. Taking into
> account that 20 years ago this fleet had over 30 submarines this fact
> doesn't need any additional comments.
>
> So forget about hidden Russian mining operations or single-sub attack on
> the CBG, folks! :)
>
> > The rest of the Black Sea fleet is elderly and of dubious serviceability.
>
> Yes. As for major surface combatants the sole real Russian force is
> Slava-class missile cruiser (IOC 1983). The rest of inventory is so
> ridiculous you cannot even imagine: two Kara-class "cruisers" (IOC
> 1973), one Kashin-class destroyer (IOC 1966) and two Krivak-class
> frigates (IOC 1978). All warships were not modernized for 20 years!
>
> Small vessel force constitutes less that ten "missile cutter" of
> Nanuchka, Tarantul and Bora types. In fact some of these boats armed
> with Moskit (SS-N-22) missiles are the most dangerous Russian force on
> the Black Sea but of course not against an enemy with strong naval air
> power.
>
> There is also quite big landing ships fleet on the Black Sea: three
> Alligator-class and four Ropucha-class vessels. Unfortunately almost all
> of them built in 1960s so I don't think much of them is seaworthy.
>
> Naval aviation is practically non-existent: a squadron of 12 Su-24 (not
> Su-24M much upgraded variant!) badly outdated bombers without any ASMs
> and a squadron of Ka-27 ASW heloes based on ships.
>
> In sum: it is very potent force capable to block any US naval incursion
> into The Black Sea! :)

Since an unmanned cement carrier could stop any U.S. fleet trying to
force its way into the Black Sea that is kind of irrelevant.

and as a extra special treat for those who have from time to time
looked at a navigation chart and made the comment, here is where the
Fugawi:

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Author www.1yachtua.com
20 March 2008
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Turkey. Sea of Marmara. The Bosporus.

Scale 1:30 000.
Mercator projection.
European 1950 Data

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 16 2008 7:38 am
From: "Andrew Chaplin"

"Jack Linthicum" <jacklinthicum@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:eb7a97ee-7a95-4991-b8b6-f4619e5fb604@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 16, 9:34 am, "William Black" <william.bl...@hotmail.co.uk>
> wrote:
>> "Jack Linthicum" <jacklinthi...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>
>> news:cfe6a963-f7f2-465c-a8dd-6868ab2ecf80@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > Which Russian sub is seaworthy, able to make enough knots to beat the
>> > CVN to the Straits, has any training within the last five years in
>> > intercepting and sinking a 100,000 ton ship? It will take them three
>> > days just to rig the thing for sea.
>>
>> I think there's a 'Kilo' in the Black Sea fleet.
>>
>> If this is serious I'd imagine it's already on the way...
>>
>> If they can get it running.
>>
>> The rest of the Black Sea fleet is elderly and of dubious serviceability.
>>
>> --
>> William Black
>>
>> I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
>> Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
>> I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
>> All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
>> Time for tea.
>
> Here is a photo of Sebastopol, it appears to me that Ukraine could
> block any ship leaving or entering this port. Am I correct that the
> submarine is at about 55% of the width from the left and almost exact
> center vertical?
>
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Sevastopol004.jpg

Here's a Google Maps view of the same area: http://preview.tinyurl.com/622ruj.
The photo to which you linked is only a small portion of the harbour.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 16 2008 7:51 am
From: Jack Linthicum

On Aug 16, 10:38 am, "Andrew Chaplin"
<ab.chap...@yourfinger.rogers.com> wrote:
> "Jack Linthicum" <jacklinthi...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>
> news:eb7a97ee-7a95-4991-b8b6-f4619e5fb604@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Aug 16, 9:34 am, "William Black" <william.bl...@hotmail.co.uk>
> > wrote:
> >> "Jack Linthicum" <jacklinthi...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>
> >>news:cfe6a963-f7f2-465c-a8dd-6868ab2ecf80@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> > Which Russian sub is seaworthy, able to make enough knots to beat the
> >> > CVN to the Straits, has any training within the last five years in
> >> > intercepting and sinking a 100,000 ton ship? It will take them three
> >> > days just to rig the thing for sea.
>
> >> I think there's a 'Kilo' in the Black Sea fleet.
>
> >> If this is serious I'd imagine it's already on the way...
>
> >> If they can get it running.
>
> >> The rest of the Black Sea fleet is elderly and of dubious serviceability.
>
> >> --
> >> William Black
>
> >> I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
> >> Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
> >> I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
> >> All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
> >> Time for tea.
>
> > Here is a photo of Sebastopol, it appears to me that Ukraine could
> > block any ship leaving or entering this port. Am I correct that the
> > submarine is at about 55% of the width from the left and almost exact
> > center vertical?
>
> >http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Sevastopol004.jpg
>
> Here's a Google Maps view of the same area:http://preview.tinyurl.com/622ruj.
> The photo to which you linked is only a small portion of the harbour.
> --
> Andrew Chaplin
> SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
> (If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

Nice, even nicer to have labels to tell where Russia leaves off and
Ukraine begins.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Navy Agrees to Sonar System Restriction
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.military.naval/browse_thread/thread/9d9a5832569e7512?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 16 2008 7:55 am
From: richardcasady@earthlink.net (Richard Casady)

On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 03:30:21 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
<jacklinthicum@earthlink.net> wrote:

>The settlement approved by a federal judge in San Francisco restricts
>the Navy's use of low-frequency sonar to specific military training
>areas near Hawaii and in the western Pacific Ocean.
>
>"Today's agreement maintains the Navy's ability to test and train
>while shielding whales and other vulnerable species from harmful
>underwater noise," said Michael Jasny, a policy analyst with the
>Natural Resources Defense Council, which was the lead plaintiff in the
>case.

Why couldn't the sub ramp up the power slowly so that the whales would
have a chance to split before it got really loud?

Casady

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 16 2008 8:07 am
From: Jack Linthicum

On Aug 16, 10:55 am, richardcas...@earthlink.net (Richard Casady)
wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 03:30:21 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
>
> <jacklinthi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >The settlement approved by a federal judge in San Francisco restricts
> >the Navy's use of low-frequency sonar to specific military training
> >areas near Hawaii and in the western Pacific Ocean.
>
> >"Today's agreement maintains the Navy's ability to test and train
> >while shielding whales and other vulnerable species from harmful
> >underwater noise," said Michael Jasny, a policy analyst with the
> >Natural Resources Defense Council, which was the lead plaintiff in the
> >case.
>
> Why couldn't the sub ramp up the power slowly so that the whales would
> have a chance to split before it got really loud?
>
> Casady

Why not experiment? I mean we have no enemies with the sort of
submarine capabilities we have ourselves, just whack the big blubber
pots and learn directly what knocks them out. Especially when its an
experimental sonar, no idea what it can do in the actual detection
business. Hit a few whales and sell them to the Japanese. Two-way
street.

How are you going to measure the effect on the whales? How do you get
close enough to determine what physical effects, let alone mental
effects, your buzz box puts out. Please note the area of interest
seems to be shallow water, neither Hawaii or Southern California are
contiguous to shallow water.
http://ftp.fas.org/irp/program/collect/lfa.htm

Or find a place where the whales aren't. I notice from this chart that
the Med and the Red seas are pretty whale-clear. And they have the
water and bottom characteristics of the Hormuz area.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Cetacea_range_map_Humpback_Whale.png

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 16 2008 8:11 am
From: "La N"

"Jack Linthicum" <jacklinthicum@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:17a8cfb4-8547-46a2-9c63-9d1f2b840a56@d77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 16, 10:55 am, richardcas...@earthlink.net (Richard Casady)
wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 03:30:21 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
>
> <jacklinthi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >The settlement approved by a federal judge in San Francisco restricts
> >the Navy's use of low-frequency sonar to specific military training
> >areas near Hawaii and in the western Pacific Ocean.
>
> >"Today's agreement maintains the Navy's ability to test and train
> >while shielding whales and other vulnerable species from harmful
> >underwater noise," said Michael Jasny, a policy analyst with the
> >Natural Resources Defense Council, which was the lead plaintiff in the
> >case.
>
> Why couldn't the sub ramp up the power slowly so that the whales would
> have a chance to split before it got really loud?
>
> Casady

************************************************

Speaking of experiments, Jack, I'm surprised you haven't scooped us on
*this*news:

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/080815/koddities/oddity_mind_war

Guess what? Military funds mind-reading science
Module body

LOS ANGELES - Here's a mind-bending idea: The U.S. military is paying
scientists to study ways to read people's thoughts.

The hope is that the research could someday lead to a gadget capable of
translating the thoughts of soldiers who suffered brain injuries in combat
or even stroke patients in hospitals. But the research also raises concerns
that such mind-reading technology could be used to interrogate the enemy.

Armed with a $4 million grant from the Army, scientists are studying brain
signals to try to decipher what a person is thinking and to whom the person
wants to direct the message.

The project is a collaboration among researchers at the University of
California, Irvine; Carnegie Mellon University; and the University of
Maryland.

The scientists use brain wave-reading technology known as
electroencephalography, or EEG, which measures the brain's electrical
activity through electrodes placed on the scalp.

It works like this: Volunteers wear an electrode cap and are asked to think
of a word chosen by the researchers, who then analyze the brain activity.

In the future, scientists hope to develop thought-recognition software that
would allow a computer to speak or type out a person's thought.

"To have a person think in a free manner and then figure out what that is,
we're years away from that," said lead researcher Michael D'Zmura, who heads
UC Irvine's cognitive sciences department.

D'Zmura said such a system would require extensive training by people trying
to send a message and dismisses the notion that thoughts can be forced out.

"This will never be used in a way without somebody's real, active
cooperation," he said.

John Pike, director of GlobalSecurity.org, a Virginia-based defence research
firm, said the technology is still too nascent to be of practical use for
the military.

"They're still in the proof of principle stage," Pike said.

A message left with the Army was not immediately returned Friday.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 16 2008 8:33 am
From: Jack Linthicum

On Aug 16, 11:11 am, "La N" <nilita2004NOS...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Jack Linthicum" <jacklinthi...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>
> news:17a8cfb4-8547-46a2-9c63-9d1f2b840a56@d77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 16, 10:55 am, richardcas...@earthlink.net (Richard Casady)
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 03:30:21 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
>
> > <jacklinthi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > >The settlement approved by a federal judge in San Francisco restricts
> > >the Navy's use of low-frequency sonar to specific military training
> > >areas near Hawaii and in the western Pacific Ocean.
>
> > >"Today's agreement maintains the Navy's ability to test and train
> > >while shielding whales and other vulnerable species from harmful
> > >underwater noise," said Michael Jasny, a policy analyst with the
> > >Natural Resources Defense Council, which was the lead plaintiff in the
> > >case.
>
> > Why couldn't the sub ramp up the power slowly so that the whales would
> > have a chance to split before it got really loud?
>
> > Casady
>
> Why not experiment? I mean we have no enemies with the sort of
> submarine capabilities we have ourselves, just whack the big blubber
> pots and learn directly what knocks them out. Especially when its an
> experimental sonar, no idea what it can do in the actual detection
> business. Hit a few whales and sell them to the Japanese. Two-way
> street.
>
> ************************************************
>
> Speaking of experiments, Jack, I'm surprised you haven't scooped us on
> *this*news:
>
> http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/080815/koddities/oddity_mind_war
>
> Guess what? Military funds mind-reading science
> Module body
>
> LOS ANGELES - Here's a mind-bending idea: The U.S. military is paying
> scientists to study ways to read people's thoughts.
>
> The hope is that the research could someday lead to a gadget capable of
> translating the thoughts of soldiers who suffered brain injuries in combat
> or even stroke patients in hospitals. But the research also raises concerns
> that such mind-reading technology could be used to interrogate the enemy.
>
> Armed with a $4 million grant from the Army, scientists are studying brain
> signals to try to decipher what a person is thinking and to whom the person
> wants to direct the message.
>
> The project is a collaboration among researchers at the University of
> California, Irvine; Carnegie Mellon University; and the University of
> Maryland.
>
> The scientists use brain wave-reading technology known as
> electroencephalography, or EEG, which measures the brain's electrical
> activity through electrodes placed on the scalp.
>
> It works like this: Volunteers wear an electrode cap and are asked to think
> of a word chosen by the researchers, who then analyze the brain activity.
>
> In the future, scientists hope to develop thought-recognition software that
> would allow a computer to speak or type out a person's thought.
>
> "To have a person think in a free manner and then figure out what that is,
> we're years away from that," said lead researcher Michael D'Zmura, who heads
> UC Irvine's cognitive sciences department.
>
> D'Zmura said such a system would require extensive training by people trying
> to send a message and dismisses the notion that thoughts can be forced out.
>
> "This will never be used in a way without somebody's real, active
> cooperation," he said.
>
> John Pike, director of GlobalSecurity.org, a Virginia-based defence research
> firm, said the technology is still too nascent to be of practical use for
> the military.
>
> "They're still in the proof of principle stage," Pike said.
>
> A message left with the Army was not immediately returned Friday.

It would seem that the military has a bunch of heavy weights searching
through all of the abandoned CIA projects, from the time before
Church, presumably looking at improved devices to make up for
absolutely no results from the 1960s and early 70s.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 16 2008 8:40 am
From: "La N"

"Jack Linthicum" <jacklinthicum@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:4065d338-f8f6-41d8-a645-9b90f0487fd7@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 16, 11:11 am, "La N" <nilita2004NOS...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> "Jack Linthicum" <jacklinthi...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>
>> news:17a8cfb4-8547-46a2-9c63-9d1f2b840a56@d77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>> On Aug 16, 10:55 am, richardcas...@earthlink.net (Richard Casady)
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 03:30:21 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
>>
>> > <jacklinthi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> > >The settlement approved by a federal judge in San Francisco restricts
>> > >the Navy's use of low-frequency sonar to specific military training
>> > >areas near Hawaii and in the western Pacific Ocean.
>>
>> > >"Today's agreement maintains the Navy's ability to test and train
>> > >while shielding whales and other vulnerable species from harmful
>> > >underwater noise," said Michael Jasny, a policy analyst with the
>> > >Natural Resources Defense Council, which was the lead plaintiff in the
>> > >case.
>>
>> > Why couldn't the sub ramp up the power slowly so that the whales would
>> > have a chance to split before it got really loud?
>>
>> > Casady
>>
>> Why not experiment? I mean we have no enemies with the sort of
>> submarine capabilities we have ourselves, just whack the big blubber
>> pots and learn directly what knocks them out. Especially when its an
>> experimental sonar, no idea what it can do in the actual detection
>> business. Hit a few whales and sell them to the Japanese. Two-way
>> street.
>>
>> ************************************************
>>
>> Speaking of experiments, Jack, I'm surprised you haven't scooped us on
>> *this*news:
>>
>> http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/080815/koddities/oddity_mind_war
>>
>> Guess what? Military funds mind-reading science
>> Module body
>>
>> LOS ANGELES - Here's a mind-bending idea: The U.S. military is paying
>> scientists to study ways to read people's thoughts.
>>
>> The hope is that the research could someday lead to a gadget capable of
>> translating the thoughts of soldiers who suffered brain injuries in
>> combat
>> or even stroke patients in hospitals. But the research also raises
>> concerns
>> that such mind-reading technology could be used to interrogate the enemy.
>>
>> Armed with a $4 million grant from the Army, scientists are studying
>> brain
>> signals to try to decipher what a person is thinking and to whom the
>> person
>> wants to direct the message.
>>
>> The project is a collaboration among researchers at the University of
>> California, Irvine; Carnegie Mellon University; and the University of
>> Maryland.
>>
>> The scientists use brain wave-reading technology known as
>> electroencephalography, or EEG, which measures the brain's electrical
>> activity through electrodes placed on the scalp.
>>
>> It works like this: Volunteers wear an electrode cap and are asked to
>> think
>> of a word chosen by the researchers, who then analyze the brain activity.
>>
>> In the future, scientists hope to develop thought-recognition software
>> that
>> would allow a computer to speak or type out a person's thought.
>>
>> "To have a person think in a free manner and then figure out what that
>> is,
>> we're years away from that," said lead researcher Michael D'Zmura, who
>> heads
>> UC Irvine's cognitive sciences department.
>>
>> D'Zmura said such a system would require extensive training by people
>> trying
>> to send a message and dismisses the notion that thoughts can be forced
>> out.
>>
>> "This will never be used in a way without somebody's real, active
>> cooperation," he said.
>>
>> John Pike, director of GlobalSecurity.org, a Virginia-based defence
>> research
>> firm, said the technology is still too nascent to be of practical use for
>> the military.
>>
>> "They're still in the proof of principle stage," Pike said.
>>
>> A message left with the Army was not immediately returned Friday.
>
> It would seem that the military has a bunch of heavy weights searching
> through all of the abandoned CIA projects, from the time before
> Church, presumably looking at improved devices to make up for
> absolutely no results from the 1960s and early 70s.

Yeah, it's too bad about the teleportation idea they had. It would have
been real cool for that one to work out. Can you imagine, Jack. You could
one minute be in Florida, 2 seconds later in Ossetia? Or, at the very
least, amaze your friends at parties by bending spoons with your mind.

- nil

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Ronald Reagan's "legacy" - Gorbachev
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.military.naval/browse_thread/thread/18d6840b94dcd038?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 16 2008 8:03 am
From: "a425couple"

"Erik Bloodaxe" <erik@fjord.nl> wrote ...
> So much for Ronald Reagan having dealt with the Russians. The escalating
> Russia crisis shows the official pro-Reagan version of history to be a
> lie. He was a short-sighted President, and a bad actor besides. Thanks so
> much for your "contributions," Ronnie.

It may be worth considering what ex-Russian leader
Gorbachev had to say about POTUS Reagan in 2004:

"Reagan," said Gorbachev, 73, was "an extraordinary political leader" who
decided "to be a peacemaker" at just the right moment -- the moment when
Gorbachev had come to power in Moscow. He, too, wanted to be a peacemaker,
so "our interests coincided." Reagan's second term began in January 1985;
two months later, Gorbachev was elected general secretary of the Soviet
Communist Party.

Reagan had been a kind of reformer in the United States, Gorbachev
suggested. His first term as president "came at a time when the American
nation was in a very difficult situation -- not just in socio-economic
terms, but psychologically, too," because of "the consequences of Vietnam
and Watergate" and turmoil at home. Reagan rose to the occasion and
"restored America's self-confidence. . . . This is what he accomplished."

"He was a person committed to certain values and traditions," Gorbachev
continued. "For him the American dream was not just rhetoric. It was
something he felt in his heart. In that sense he was an idealistic
American."

(in other words, not "short sighted", nor "bad actor")

== 2 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 16 2008 8:46 am
From: "Lord Gow333, Conservative Fullback!"

"rwa2play, The Northern Lariat" <rwa2play@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:48a662ad$0$29517$607ed4bc@cv.net...
> Lord Gow333, Conservative Fullback! wrote:
>>
>> "rwa2play (Lost mode on)" <rwa2play@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:cd6c9e15-3e01-4dea-9bc2-9ed529af0767@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>> On Aug 15, 4:15 pm, "Lord Gow333, Conservative Fullback!"
>> <lord...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> "xyzzy" <xyzzy.d...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>
>>> news:51c08e32-2cfc-4db9-8a56-bd9f7232a2f3@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Aug 15, 2:07 pm, Erik Bloodaxe <e...@fjord.nl> wrote:
>>>
>>> > So much for Ronald Reagan having dealt with the Russians. The
>>> escalating
>>> > Russia crisis shows the official pro-Reagan version of history to be a
>>> > lie.
>>>
>>> > He was a short-sighted President, and a bad actor besides. Thanks so
>>> > much for your "contributions," Ronnie.
>>>
>>> I'm pretty sure we'll be told it's Clinton's fault that Russia is
>>> resurgent, despite the fact that resurgence occurred mainly on the
>>> watch of the man who looked into Putin's soul and found it good, and
>>> was partially fueled by the high oil prices that man helped to cause
>>> by starting a war in the middle east, and partially emboldended by the
>>> bogging down of most of our military strength in that elective war.
>>>
>>> ~~~~
>>> ½* trolls, or are you two really this fucking stupid?
>>
>>
>> He got you to answer, I say "Mission Accomplished."
>>
>> ~~~~
>> What about the 4,000+ brain cells he killed off making that post?
>>
>
>
> What makes you think he needed the brain cells to begin with?

He's a liberal. He needs every one he can get his hands on...

LG
--
The shining beacon of truth in a newsgroup full of liberals. - rafiki

== 3 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 16 2008 8:49 am
From: Siobhan Medeiros

On Aug 15, 7:44 pm, "Lord Gow333, Conservative Fullback!"
<lord...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Damon Hynes" <damonhy...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:9f1f92b5-07d7-412d-a1d9-b56d6d71020c@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 15, 3:15 pm, "Lord Gow333, Conservative Fullback!"
>
>
>
> <lord...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > "xyzzy" <xyzzy.d...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:51c08e32-2cfc-4db9-8a56-bd9f7232a2f3@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> > On Aug 15, 2:07 pm, Erik Bloodaxe <e...@fjord.nl> wrote:
>
> > > So much for Ronald Reagan having dealt with the Russians. The escalating
> > > Russia crisis shows the official pro-Reagan version of history to be a
> > > lie.
>
> > > He was a short-sighted President, and a bad actor besides. Thanks so
> > > much for your "contributions," Ronnie.
>
> > I'm pretty sure we'll be told it's Clinton's fault that Russia is
> > resurgent, despite the fact that resurgence occurred mainly on the
> > watch of the man who looked into Putin's soul and found it good, and
> > was partially fueled by the high oil prices that man helped to cause
> > by starting a war in the middle east, and partially emboldended by the
> > bogging down of most of our military strength in that elective war.
>
> > ~~~~
> > ½* trolls, or are you two really this fucking stupid?
>
> Why does it have to be either/or?
>
> ~~~~
> Good point.
>
> LG
> --
> No arsenal or no weapon in the arsenals of the world is so formidable as the
> will and moral courage of free men and women. - Ronald Reagan

I noticed you couldn't actually answer the points, dumbfuck

== 4 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 16 2008 8:50 am
From: "Lord Gow333, Conservative Fullback!"

<psyber_operations@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:0cd151c2-cb02-4961-a0bf-0996fc68d899@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 15, 4:15 pm, "Lord Gow333, Conservative Fullback!"
<lord...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "xyzzy" <xyzzy.d...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:51c08e32-2cfc-4db9-8a56-bd9f7232a2f3@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 15, 2:07 pm, Erik Bloodaxe <e...@fjord.nl> wrote:
>
> > So much for Ronald Reagan having dealt with the Russians. The escalating
> > Russia crisis shows the official pro-Reagan version of history to be a
> > lie.
>
> > He was a short-sighted President, and a bad actor besides. Thanks so
> > much for your "contributions," Ronnie.
>
> I'm pretty sure we'll be told it's Clinton's fault that Russia is
> resurgent, despite the fact that resurgence occurred mainly on the
> watch of the man who looked into Putin's soul and found it good, and
> was partially fueled by the high oil prices that man helped to cause
> by starting a war in the middle east, and partially emboldended by the
> bogging down of most of our military strength in that elective war.
>
> ~~~~
> ½* trolls, or are you two really this fucking stupid?
>
> LG
> --
> No arsenal or no weapon in the arsenals of the world is so formidable as
> the
> will and moral courage of free men and women. - Ronald Reagan
> --
> "To oppose everything while proposing nothing is irresponsible." - George
> W.Bush

Naw, it's because you are so blind Lord Gow, as most neocons are. You
are blinded by your idolatry of an idol who is unworthy to be
worshipped as an idol, as well as your idolatry of the empty values
neocons worship.

~~~~
Funny... change "Lord Gow" to "(any random lib) and "neocon" to "libtard"
and make the subject Obama instead of Reagan and that claim actually works.
~~~~

*crack
(sound of me hitting yet another home run out of the park)

boy, that feels good!

~~~~
It must be a libtard trait to have to congratulate youself.
Is it because no one else will?

LG
--
'Greatness doesn't have to be explained. It just is.' - Rush Limbaugh

== 5 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 16 2008 8:51 am
From: "Lord Gow333, Conservative Fullback!"

"Elsa Schneider" <elsa@mx0.wwwnew.eu> wrote in message
news:e7ab051f-1b54-4a55-b28b-3287ca2ec574@k30g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
xyzzy wrote:
> On Aug 15, 2:07�pm, Erik Bloodaxe <e...@fjord.nl> wrote:
> > So much for Ronald Reagan having dealt with the Russians. The escalating
> > Russia crisis shows the official pro-Reagan version of history to be a
> > lie.
> >
> > He was a short-sighted President, and a bad actor besides. Thanks so
> > much for your "contributions," Ronnie.
>
> I'm pretty sure we'll be told it's Clinton's fault that Russia is
> resurgent, despite the fact that resurgence occurred mainly on the
> watch of the man who looked into Putin's soul and found it good, and
> was partially fueled by the high oil prices that man helped to cause
> by starting a war in the middle east, and partially emboldended by the
> bogging down of most of our military strength in that elective war.

"starting war in the middle east"??? so you americans have forgotten
about 9-11-01 already, have you?

~~~~
Half of us forgot it on 9-12-01, the rest of us will never forget it.

LG
--
The attacks were meant to bring us to our knees, and they did, but not in
the way the terrorists intended. Americans united in prayer, came to the aid
of neighbors in need, and resolved that our enemies would not have the last
word. - George W. Bush

== 6 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 16 2008 8:53 am
From: Siobhan Medeiros

On Aug 16, 8:50 am, "Lord Gow333, Conservative Fullback!"
<lord...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> <psyber_operati...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:0cd151c2-cb02-4961-a0bf-0996fc68d899@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 15, 4:15 pm, "Lord Gow333, Conservative Fullback!"
>
>
>
> <lord...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > "xyzzy" <xyzzy.d...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:51c08e32-2cfc-4db9-8a56-bd9f7232a2f3@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> > On Aug 15, 2:07 pm, Erik Bloodaxe <e...@fjord.nl> wrote:
>
> > > So much for Ronald Reagan having dealt with the Russians. The escalating
> > > Russia crisis shows the official pro-Reagan version of history to be a
> > > lie.
>
> > > He was a short-sighted President, and a bad actor besides. Thanks so
> > > much for your "contributions," Ronnie.
>
> > I'm pretty sure we'll be told it's Clinton's fault that Russia is
> > resurgent, despite the fact that resurgence occurred mainly on the
> > watch of the man who looked into Putin's soul and found it good, and
> > was partially fueled by the high oil prices that man helped to cause
> > by starting a war in the middle east, and partially emboldended by the
> > bogging down of most of our military strength in that elective war.
>
> > ~~~~
> > ½* trolls, or are you two really this fucking stupid?
>
> > LG
> > --
> > No arsenal or no weapon in the arsenals of the world is so formidable as
> > the
> > will and moral courage of free men and women. - Ronald Reagan
> > --
> > "To oppose everything while proposing nothing is irresponsible." - George
> > W.Bush
>
> Naw, it's because you are so blind Lord Gow, as most neocons are. You
> are blinded by your idolatry of an idol who is unworthy to be
> worshipped as an idol, as well as your idolatry of the empty values
> neocons worship.
>
> ~~~~
> Funny... change "Lord Gow" to "(any random lib) and "neocon" to "libtard"
> and make the subject Obama instead of Reagan and that claim actually works.
> ~~~~
>

Yeah, if Obama had claimed to end the Cold War..

> *crack
> (sound of me hitting yet another home run out of the park)
>
> boy, that feels good!

Nope. That "crack" was the sound of the knockout punch hitting your
jaw.

>
> ~~~~
> It must be a libtard trait to have to congratulate youself.
> Is it because no one else will?
>
> LG
> --
> 'Greatness doesn't have to be explained. It just is.' - Rush Limbaugh

== 7 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 16 2008 8:54 am
From: "Lord Gow333, Conservative Fullback!"

"Raymond O'Hara" <raymond-ohara@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5tudnZ-hFPUO2TvVnZ2dnUVZ_j6dnZ2d@rcn.net...
>
> "Elsa Schneider" <elsa@mx0.wwwnew.eu> wrote in message
> news:e7ab051f-1b54-4a55-b28b-3287ca2ec574@k30g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> xyzzy wrote:
>> On Aug 15, 2:07?pm, Erik Bloodaxe <e...@fjord.nl> wrote:
>> > So much for Ronald Reagan having dealt with the Russians. The
>> > escalating
>> > Russia crisis shows the official pro-Reagan version of history to be a
>> > lie.
>> >
>> > He was a short-sighted President, and a bad actor besides. Thanks so
>> > much for your "contributions," Ronnie.
>>
>> I'm pretty sure we'll be told it's Clinton's fault that Russia is
>> resurgent, despite the fact that resurgence occurred mainly on the
>> watch of the man who looked into Putin's soul and found it good, and
>> was partially fueled by the high oil prices that man helped to cause
>> by starting a war in the middle east, and partially emboldended by the
>> bogging down of most of our military strength in that elective war.
>
> "starting war in the middle east"??? so you americans have forgotten
> about 9-11-01 already, have you?
>
>
> iraq was not involved in 9/11.
> how many times does that have to be pointed out.

As many times as we need to point out that Iraq was aiding terrorists and
acting in violation of UN resolutions, apparently.

Also as part of the Desert Storm peace negotiation we reserved the right to
resume kicking their ass if we considered it necessary.

History... it's fun!

LG
--
Freedom, by its nature, cannot be imposed -- it must be chosen. From Beirut
to Baghdad, people are making the choice for freedom. - George W. Bush

== 8 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 16 2008 8:55 am
From: "Lord Gow333, Conservative Fullback!"

<psyber_operations@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:99044fe3-dea4-45f5-8e5c-af96208f35f3@79g2000hsk.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 15, 10:59 pm, Elsa Schneider <e...@mx0.wwwnew.eu> wrote:
> xyzzy wrote:
> > On Aug 15, 2:07 pm, Erik Bloodaxe <e...@fjord.nl> wrote:
> > > So much for Ronald Reagan having dealt with the Russians. The
> > > escalating
> > > Russia crisis shows the official pro-Reagan version of history to be a
> > > lie.
>
> > > He was a short-sighted President, and a bad actor besides. Thanks so
> > > much for your "contributions," Ronnie.
>
> > I'm pretty sure we'll be told it's Clinton's fault that Russia is
> > resurgent, despite the fact that resurgence occurred mainly on the
> > watch of the man who looked into Putin's soul and found it good, and
> > was partially fueled by the high oil prices that man helped to cause
> > by starting a war in the middle east, and partially emboldended by the
> > bogging down of most of our military strength in that elective war.
>
> "starting war in the middle east"??? so you americans have forgotten
> about 9-11-01 already, have you?

naw, we still haven't, and probably never will be able to, forget that
GWBush already ahd it in mind to convert as many of the countries in
the world that did not conform to his vision of "democracy" to
democracy. unfortunately for everyone involved though, when you talk
about GWBush, it is spelt "demoKKKKracy" instead - in honour of his
wont to tread on human rights, have torture committed, and to commit
war crimes.

but thanks for playing, Elsa. come on back when you have more time to
spend with us.

~~~~
Boy you are a dumbass, ain't ya?

LG
--
The shining beacon of truth in a newsgroup full of liberals. - rafiki

== 9 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 16 2008 8:56 am
From: "Lord Gow333, Conservative Fullback!"

"rich hammett" <bubbarichau@warmmail.com> wrote in message
news:svmdnUKfurLA3DvVnZ2dnUVZ_gudnZ2d@posted.hiwaay2...
> In rec.sport.football.college The Grand Beckoning <the@gr4ndb3ck0n1ng.com>
> sanoi, hitaasti kuin hämähäkki:
>> On Fri, 15 Aug 2008 11:07:31 -0700, Erik Bloodaxe <erik@fjord.nl>
>> wrote:
>>>So much for Ronald Reagan having dealt with the Russians. The escalating
>>>Russia crisis shows the official pro-Reagan version of history to be a
>>>lie.
>>>
>>>He was a short-sighted President, and a bad actor besides. Thanks so
>>>much for your "contributions," Ronnie.
>
>> The fact that Russia is attacking Georgia proves Reagan's legacy is
>> alive and well.
>
>> (and not a lie).
>
> Are you saying that Germany attacking Czechoslovakia proves that
> Neville Chamberlain was right?
>
> You people are confusing.

I hope you warmed up before all that stretching...

LG
--
No arsenal or no weapon in the arsenals of the world is so formidable as the
will and moral courage of free men and women. - Ronald Reagan

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Construction Contractor
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.military.naval/browse_thread/thread/8783469e52e4c4b3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 16 2008 8:36 am
From: Mutual Assets

This usually is due to unilateral moves managerial industrial and
business development fun correspondence to Giuen Holding Ltd.

Giuen Holding Ltd.

PL 2540 Kuttainen

SE:980 16 Karesuando

Mr Roger K. Olsson

Co/R.R.

Goteborgsvagen 1

SE: 43400 Kungsbacka

Email: rogerkolsson@yahoo.co.uk

Int. call: +46 (0) 705474830

Enquiry for organizing and staffing. Offering Accomplishing plan
requirements, and staffing. Enquiry to allocating the resources
necessary to make planning and budgeting happen.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Navy stumbling towards BCGN
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.military.naval/browse_thread/thread/aaeb97582c248f82?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 16 2008 8:38 am
From: hcobb

On Aug 15, 9:51 pm, g lof2 <glof_...@msn.com> wrote:
> Henry, do I have to copyright my work in order to keep you from
> claiming it.

Cite?

-HJC

==============================================================================
TOPIC: We are all Georgians
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.military.naval/browse_thread/thread/0c22203abe38d3e3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 16 2008 8:47 am
From: "Leadfoot"

"William Black" <william.black@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:g86ia5$ate$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>
> "Leadfoot" <Leadfoot@leadfoot.net> wrote in message
> news:k1tpk.18201$3l5.16506@newsfe06.iad...
>>
>> "William Black" <william.black@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:g8429f$mii$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>>>
>>> "Leadfoot" <Leadfoot@leadfoot.net> wrote in message
>>> news:Wdepk.19332$LF2.14572@newsfe09.iad...
>>>
>>>> Oh wait, Hitler was a Berliner.
>>>
>>> Goodness there are some scarily ill informed people about...
>>
>> I was born on Whiteman AFB in Missouri, GI brat with kindergarten at
>> Offut AFB Nebraska, elementary school at Grand Forks AFB ND, JR and SR
>> High School in Lompoc California and have been living in Phoenix AZ for
>> the last 14 years. 19 if you count my time at Williams AFB as a young
>> airman.
>>
>> I could say both Lompoc CA and Phoenix AZ, might mention Whiteman but
>> wouldn't really claim it even though I spent my sophomore year in HS
>> there and my parents are from Springfield MO.
>>
>> Its not where you are born, it is where your heart is.
>>
>> I knew Hitler was born Austrian but I think even the village idiot knows
>> his heart was German. Berlin? My guess is it's the longest he lived
>> anywhere.
>>
>> Goodness there are some scarily ill informed people about
>
> You're even more ignorant that I imagined.
>
> Hitler was born Austrian, he became a citizen of Brunswick in 1932.
>
> He moved permanently to Berlin only after becoming Chancellor in 1933.
>
> His party's main power centre was always Munich where he lived from the
> end of WWI until 1932.
>
> I don't think he ever owned or occupied a private house in Berlin.

Why would he do that? I'm sure he had a fine place to live in Berlin for
free

>
> As for your education, it obviously didn't take.
>
> --
> William Black
>
>
> I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
> Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
> I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
> All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
> Time for tea.
>
>
>
>
> fancy being brought up in
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Russia Signs Georgia Truce That Sets Stage for Troop Withdrawal
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.military.naval/browse_thread/thread/e29ee5f22b0c61df?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 16 2008 8:54 am
From: Jack Linthicum

Seems to accomplished very little, each story describes violations of
the agreement.

A top Russian military official denied that Russian forces destroyed
the bridge but also acknowledged that its forces were still operating
in Georgia.

"I am telling you with all responsibility that this could not have
happened," Col. Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn, a deputy chief of staff of
the Russian armed forces, told a daily briefing.

"When we were involved in combat actions as part of the peacekeeping
operation, bridges were our targets indeed. But now, when there is
peace, why should we blow up bridges? It is us who would have to
restore them. We are working hard there," Nogovitsyn said, according
to remarks translated by the news agency Interfax.

Remember someone else who liked to say he was doing "hard work"?

Russia Signs Georgia Truce That Sets Stage for Troop Withdrawal
Bush Applauds 'Hopeful Step' but Says Georgia Must Keep Separatist
Provinces

By Fredrick Kunkle and Peter Finn
Washington Post Staff Writers
Saturday, August 16, 2008; 11:15 AM

MOSCOW, Aug. 16 -- Russian President Dmitry Medvedev has signed the
modified cease-fire agreement with Georgia that U.S. officials say
will require Russian troops to immediately return to positions held
before hostilities broke out last week.

A pull-out, however, will not begin until "extra security measures"
ordered by Medvedev are completed, Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov told
reporters, according to the Reuters news agency. "The president issued
an order to the relevant authorities to start the adoption of extra
security measures envisaged in the six-point plan," he said. "As these
security measures are implemented, the withdrawal of forces sent to
carry out this reinforcement operation will be carried out." Lavrov
did not describe what the measures swere.

President Bush, speaking from his ranch in Crawford, Tex., after a
briefing from Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, called the Russian
acceptance of the cease-fire a "hopeful step." But he sternly asserted
that "now Russia needs to honor the agreement and withdraw its
forces." He also reiterated U.S. contention that the two separatist
provinces at the heart of the conflict are part of Georgia and cannot
be annexed by Russia.

"A major issue is Russia's contention that the region of South Ossetia
and Abkhazia may not be part of Georgia's future," he said. "These
regions are a part of Georgia and the international community has
repeatedly made clear that they will remain so. . . . There's no room
for debate on this matter."

He said Rice will be traveling to Brussels to meet with European
leaders to "to continue to rally the free world in defense of a free
Georgia."

Medvedev signed the six-point agreement on Saturday at the Black Sea
resort of Sochi after meeting with Russia's Security Council, a
Russian news agency reported.

A day earlier, Rice said that the cease-fire agreement required
Russia's immediate withdrawal to positions it held before the fighting
began. She spoke in the Georgian capital, Tbilisi, shortly after
President Mikheil Saakashvili signed the French-brokered accord.

The crisis began last week when Georgian troops moved into the
separatist province of South Ossetia. Moscow responded with military
forces, arguing that they were protecting many of the residents of
South Ossetia who hold Russian citizenship, and quickly pushed back
the Georgian troops. The Russian troop, however, moved beyond South
Ossetia and another separatist province, Abkhazia, and have occupied
areas deep into Georgia. Russian leaders this week have said that the
provinces will not revert to Georgian authority. Despite calls by the
United States to comply, Russian troops have shown no hurry to leave
and there appeared to be little movement Saturday. AGeorgian official
Saturday accused Russian troops of destroying a railroad bridge about
30 miles from the capital of Tbilisi that is part of a key rail line
that connects Tbilisi with the Black Sea port of Poti. Reuters said
members of one of its film crews found a pile of twisted steel and
rubble at one end of the bridge. Other reporters said track had been
damaged but the bridge was still standing.

A top Russian military official denied that Russian forces destroyed
the bridge but also acknowledged that its forces were still operating
in Georgia.

"I am telling you with all responsibility that this could not have
happened," Col. Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn, a deputy chief of staff of
the Russian armed forces, told a daily briefing.

Nogovitsyn also said today that Russian troops had left the Georgian
cities of Gori and Poti but were operating nearby. "Our units are on
the outskirts of Gori now, where large arsenals of Georgian weapons,
including 15 tanks, have been discovered," he said.

Nogovitsyn said the Russian military was assisting local authorities
in South Ossetia to keep order and protect against looting. He said
the redeployment of Russian troops in Georgian territory will take
place "later" but did not specify when.

Nogovitsyn added that there was set no timetable for Russian forces to
leave Abkhazia and South Ossetia. He said Russia was still bound by
prior commitments to act as peacekeepers in the disputed territory.

Rice Friday said international observers may arrive in Georgia within
a few days, and called for "a more robust and impartial peacekeeping
international force" to follow. Prior to the conflict, Russia had
installed its own peacekeeping forces in the disputed regions.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-ossetia17-2008aug17,0,5302823.story
From the Los Angeles Times
Russian forces destroy key Georgian bridge
The move came a day after the Georgian president signed a French-
backed cease-fire proposal during a visit by U.S. Secretary of State
Condoleezza Rice.
By Megan K. Stack and Borzou Daragahi
Los Angeles Times Staff Writers

August 17, 2008

IGOETI, Georgia -- Russia and its allied forces today destroyed a key
railway bridge linking this war-weary country's capital to the Western
Black Sea coast, effectively severing all east-west transportation
routes within the small country, the Georgian foreign ministry
announced.

Russian soldiers occupying the central Georgian town of Gori also
pushed forward 14 miles toward the capital, setting up positions on
the country's main east-west road 25 miles from Tbilisi. Adjacent
agricultural fields were set afire, apparently by Russian soldiers.

Russian soldiers interviewed along the road between Russian-controlled
Gori and Igoeti said their mission was to protect the road. They could
be seen hiking up toward hilltop positions and setting up checkpoints
and tank positions and conducting what appeared to be foot patrols.

Nearby villagers were in a panic.

Russian troops in military convoys garrisoned in Gori for several days
have numerous times moved toward the capital before heading quickly
back. Today marked the first time they set up positions so close to
the capital.

The destruction of the bridge in the country's Kaspi district
"resulted in the severing of railway links between the east and west
of Georgia and connections with Georgia's seaports," said a news
release issued by the Georgian foreign ministry.

The Russian moves came a day after Georgian president Mikheil
Saakashvili signed a French-backed cease-fire proposal during a visit
by U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice.

The U.S. envoy was the highest-ranking American official to visit
Georgia since war over control of the Russian-backed separatist
enclave in the country broke out Aug. 7. She called on Russia to
remove troops and allied paramilitary forces out of Georgia proper or
else face diplomatic and possible economic isolation.

"Russia needs to leave Georgia at once," she said at a news conference
Friday. "This is no longer 1968 and the invasion of Czechoslovakia,
when a great power invaded a small neighbor and overthrew its
government," she added, in reference to the Soviet Union's crushing of
the "Prague Spring" liberalization movement.

But Russian officials sounded ever more defiant, vowing again that
Georgia would never get back its breakaway regions.

"Unfortunately, after what has happened it is unlikely that the
Ossetians and the Abkhazians will be able to live in one state
together with the Georgians," Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said
at a news conference with German Chancellor Angela Merkel, who met
Medvedev in the Black Sea resort of Sochi in an effort to defuse the
crisis.

The dispute appeared to be rippling out of the Caucuses to rock
broader East-West relations. President Bush said from the White House
Rose Garden on Friday that Russia was trying to act like a Cold War
superpower, browbeating its smaller neighbors.

"With its actions in recent days, Russia has damaged its credibility
and its relations with the nations of the free world," Bush said.
"Bullying and intimidation are not acceptable ways to conduct foreign
policy in the 21st century."

The origins of the conflict remain murky, with both Russians and
Georgians accusing each other of sparking the war. But one European
official said Russia could be held accountable for its actions inside
Georgia.

"We saw that many of the reactions of the Russian army in Georgian
territory are exceeding the boundaries of international law," said
Laimonas Talat-Kepsa, a high-ranking Lithuanian diplomat in Tbilisi.

He was referring to the alleged targeting of civilians and public
infrastructure by Russian and Russian-backed forces in various parts
of Georgia.

"This disproportionate use of force continues," he said.

August 17, 2008
Kremlin Agrees to Framework for Cease-Fire in Georgia
By CLIFFORD J. LEVY and ANDREW E. KRAMER

MOSCOW — A day after the American secretary of state Condoleezza Rice
went to Georgia, not far from the front lines, to press for immediate
withdrawal of Russian forces there, the Kremlin announced on Saturday
that it had approved a framework for a cease-fire.

The Russian president, Dmitri A. Medvedev, signed the six-point
settlement after meeting with Russian security officials, the Kremlin
press office said. But it did not specify whether Russia had
specifically assented to revisions in one of the provisions, which the
Georgians had considered a loophole that Russia could use to justify
its advance deep into Georgia.

And on the ground in Georgia on Saturday, the situation remained
largely unchanged, with Russian troops occupying large swaths of
territory.

The Russian foreign minister, Sergey Lavrov, told reporters that
Russian troops would stay in Georgia "as long as needed." He said
their withdrawal would depend on the introduction of what he referred
to as "additional security measures."

At his ranch in Crawford, Tex., President Bush was briefed Saturday
morning by Ms. Rice and told reporters that he considered the signing
of the cease-fire to be a "hopeful step." He added, "Now Russia needs
to honor the agreement and withdraw its forces.

Ms. Rice visited Tbilisi on Friday to show support for Georgia, an
American ally, and to win the approval of the Georgian president for a
redefined cease-fire. As Ms. Rice spoke at a news conference, a
Russian column of at least a dozen armored vehicles moved to within
roughly 25 miles of the Georgian capital, Tbilisi, by far the
Russians' closest approach to the city.

The battle of words on Friday sharpened as well: Mr. Medvedev accused
the Georgian president, Mikheil Saakashvili, of harboring "idiotic
ideas" that had provoked the war.

Mr. Saakashvili, emotive and hyperbolic compared with the measured Ms.
Rice at his side, in turn referred to the Russians as "21st-century
barbarians" who had essentially raped Georgia.

A top Russian general said that Poland, which the day before agreed to
house an American antimissile system in its territory, had "100
percent" exposed itself to possible Russian retaliation. Polish
officials agreed to the pact with the United States soon after the
Russian attacks on Georgia, after months of expressing doubts on the
issue.

Georgia has remained tense after several days of fighting left tens of
thousands of people homeless and thrust the United States and Russia
into a cold-war-like confrontation. In Washington, Mr. Bush on Friday
warned of repercussions from events in a "small country halfway around
the world."

The humanitarian situation in Georgian villages in Russian-controlled
areas continued to worsen on Friday. Georgia's minister of health,
Alexander Kvitashvili, estimated in an interview that as many as 3,000
people were trapped in Georgian villages, unable to come out for fear
that marauding South Ossetians would kill them.

Bodies of Georgian soldiers still lay sprawled on streets in areas
controlled by Russian forces, witnesses said, creating a horrible
stench.

The number of Georgian deaths since the beginning of the conflict is
175, Mr. Kvitashvili said, including 115 soldiers. That number is
expected to grow, as Georgian villages start to become accessible, and
bodies are brought to morgues.

Besides offering vocal backing for Georgia, Ms. Rice, after about five
hours of talks with Mr. Saakashvili, persuaded him to sign a revised
version of the cease-fire framework that had originally been hammered
out on Wednesday.

The six-point arrangement had been negotiated by the French president,
Nicolas Sarkozy, but a dispute soon followed over one of its
provisions, which the Russians had interpreted as allowing them to
maintain a military presence on Georgian territory outside the two
disputed enclaves, South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

Ms. Rice brought with her a letter from Mr. Sarkozy clarifying that
this provision would not apply to populated areas or the main east-
west highway that is the country's lifeline, said Giga Bokeria,
Georgia's deputy foreign minister. That would mean, Ms. Rice argued,
that the Russians would have to withdraw from Gori, a strategically
important city 40 miles west of Tbilisi.

"With the signing of this accord, all Russian troops, and any
paramilitary and irregular troops that entered with them, must leave
immediately," she said at the news conference.

The vagueness of the original provision appeared to have allowed the
Russians to justify their occupation of Gori even after the two
countries had agreed to the cease-fire framework.

A senior Western diplomat in Tbilisi, speaking on the condition of
anonymity under normal diplomatic rules, contended that the Russian
military maneuvers near the capital on Friday around the time of the
Rice visit were deliberate. The diplomat said troops were "moving
around to weaken the civilian administration and perhaps create the
conditions for political upheaval down the line."

American officials said Friday that Mr. Sarkozy had signed the
original six-point agreement and attached the letter. French diplomats
then presented the six-point plan with the signatures of Mr.
Saakashvili and Mr. Sarkozy to the Kremlin.

Russia announced late Friday night that Mr. Sarkozy had called Mr.
Medvedev, and that the two had spoken about the cease-fire agreement.

At the news conference here in Tbilisi, Mr. Saakashvili, who has not
shied in recent days from criticizing Russia with provocative
language, offered a host of historical analogies in his effort to
portray Georgia's plight, comparing it to the Eastern European nations
that had been vassals of the Soviet Union.

It was a remarkable scene, with Mr. Saakashvili fulminating about
Russia's determination to destroy even swimming pools while European
leaders were trying to secure Russia's agreement to the cease-fire
framework.

"There can be no negotiated capitulations and negotiated dismemberment
of smaller countries by bigger ones," Mr. Saakashvili said.

He said that even though he was signing the cease-fire framework, he
was not giving up Georgia's claim to Abkhazia and South Ossetia, which
are close allies of Moscow. The fighting between Georgia and Russia
erupted last week over South Ossetia.

Ms. Rice used more diplomatic and terse language, reiterating the
White House's view that if Russia wanted to be considered a respected
member of the international community, it needed to honor its
commitment to a peaceful settlement.

A few hours earlier, at the Black Sea resort of Sochi, Mr. Medvedev
met with the German chancellor, Angela Merkel, who has often sought to
act as a bridge between the United States and Russia. At a joint news
conference after their meeting, Mrs. Merkel trod a careful line,
saying that Russia's military action was "not proportionate" but that
"both sides are probably to blame for the conflict."

She repeated demands from the United States and other European leaders
that Russia pull its troops from Georgia. She also left open the
possibility that Georgia could still join NATO, a prospect that has
infuriated Russia, though analysts have suggested that the likelihood
of Georgia being admitted is now very slim.

Mr. Medvedev, for his part, hewed to the Kremlin's position that
Georgia can never again have sovereignty over South Ossetia and
Abkhazia. Russia has said Georgia instigated the hostilities, and
called Mr. Saakashvili a war criminal.

"The entire responsibility for the conflict, for the cruel actions
committed, rests upon the shoulders of the Georgian leadership," Mr.
Medvedev said.

Georgia was not the only strain on relations between the United States
and Russia.

Earlier on Friday, a top Russian defense official rebuked Washington
over the deal it had reached with Poland on Thursday on an American
antimissile system.

The Russian official, Col. Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn, indicated that
Poland was making itself a target by agreeing to serve as host for the
antimissile system, which Washington said was intended to ward off
threats from countries like Iran, not Russia. Such an action "cannot
go unpunished," he said.

He also raised the question of whether the United States might be
sending military aid into Georgia as part of the humanitarian airlift
that began this week.

"We would like to know whether it is humanitarian or military," he
said.

He said Georgians had exaggerated the damage their country sustained
during the war, and denied that the Russian side used cluster bombs
against Georgians. Human Rights Watch said Friday that Russian
aircraft had dropped cluster bombs on Tuesday in two raids on the
towns of Ruisi and Gori, killing at least 11 civilians.

There were no reports of hostilities in the eastern part of Georgia on
Friday, but Georgian troops in the western city of Kutaisi, about 50
miles from the Black Sea coast, said they were bracing as a Russian
armored patrol advanced from the west.

Farther east, refugees emerging from the conflict zone in the
separatist territory of South Ossetia told of looters roaming through
villages. Russians retained control of the central Georgian city of
Gori on Friday.

In the west of the country, an armed Russian patrol traveled inland to
the town of Abasha, which is about 23 miles from the Black Sea, then
later returned to a temporary base at Senaki.

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Saturday, August 16, 2008

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