The Captain: 22 new messages in 10 topics

sci.military.naval
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.military.naval?hl=en

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Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Giant Squid!
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.military.naval/browse_thread/thread/ab3e7c9e840e2e69?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, May 3 2008 6:56 pm
From: Peter Skelton

On Sat, 3 May 2008 21:13:03 -0400, "Ray O'Hara"
<mary.palmucci@rcn.com> wrote:

>
>"Fred J. McCall" <fmccall@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:4b1q145u2c4pc3vd7ipbvmf8cc3hi80teq@4ax.com...
>> dumpster4@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>> :See:
>> :
>> :http://www.newsweek.com/id/36384&GT1=43001
>> :
>> :Apparently, there's some really big ones down there. Have any
>> :sonar operators ever mistaken them for subs?
>> :
>> :I know whales emit whalesong and natural sonar pulses that are
>> :distinctive, but how hard (easy?) is it to tell other "biologicals"
>> :from subs?
>> :
>>
>> That rather depends on who you are and what equipment you're using.
>>
>> WWII is probably the worst thing that has ever happened to Atlantic
>> Ocean whale populations...
>>
>
>whales probably learned to avoid the shipping lanes.
>
You have heard of evasive routing?

It's no wonder folks laugh at you when you pretend expertise.

Peter Skelton

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, May 3 2008 10:55 pm
From: "Ray O'Hara"

"Peter Skelton" <skeltonp@cogeco.ca> wrote in message
news:hs5q14dsfbhlcr9gsuutrkgf0ik3j6tqtk@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 3 May 2008 21:13:03 -0400, "Ray O'Hara"
> <mary.palmucci@rcn.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Fred J. McCall" <fmccall@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >news:4b1q145u2c4pc3vd7ipbvmf8cc3hi80teq@4ax.com...
> >> dumpster4@hotmail.com wrote:
> >>
> >> :See:
> >> :
> >> :http://www.newsweek.com/id/36384&GT1=43001
> >> :
> >> :Apparently, there's some really big ones down there. Have any
> >> :sonar operators ever mistaken them for subs?
> >> :
> >> :I know whales emit whalesong and natural sonar pulses that are
> >> :distinctive, but how hard (easy?) is it to tell other "biologicals"
> >> :from subs?
> >> :
> >>
> >> That rather depends on who you are and what equipment you're using.
> >>
> >> WWII is probably the worst thing that has ever happened to Atlantic
> >> Ocean whale populations...
> >>
> >
> >whales probably learned to avoid the shipping lanes.
> >
> You have heard of evasive routing?
>
> It's no wonder folks laugh at you when you pretend expertise.
>
> Peter Skelton

there is only so far one can evade. convoy routes were fairly stable.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Brits Dump "Red Ken" & Elect Tory As London Mayor
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.military.naval/browse_thread/thread/c3d90a8e1d179a83?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, May 3 2008 6:55 pm
From: Matt Osborn

On Sun, 4 May 2008 00:06:29 +0100, "D. Spencer Hines"
<panther@excelsior.com> wrote:

>Charming...
>
>DSH
>
>Lux et Veritas et Libertas
>
>Deus Vult
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>
>"If gay marriage was OK - and I was uncertain on the issue - then I saw no
>reason in principle why a union should not be consecrated between three men,
>as well as two men, or indeed three men and a dog."
>
>Boris Johnson
>
>_Friends, Voters, Countrymen_ (2001)
>

Like children, it is doubtful that dogs can give informed consent.

-- msosborn at msosborn dot com

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, May 3 2008 8:28 pm
From: Sharky

Matt Osborn wrote:

>On Sun, 4 May 2008 00:06:29 +0100, "D. Spencer Hines"
><panther@excelsior.com> wrote:
>
>>Charming...
>>
>>DSH
>>
>>Lux et Veritas et Libertas
>>
>>Deus Vult
>>-----------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>"If gay marriage was OK - and I was uncertain on the issue - then I saw no
>>reason in principle why a union should not be consecrated between three men,
>>as well as two men, or indeed three men and a dog."
>>
>>Boris Johnson
>>
>>_Friends, Voters, Countrymen_ (2001)
>>
>
>Like children, it is doubtful that dogs can give informed consent.

That doesn't appear to be an issue in India.

Indian man marries dog...
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gG1WFhskR8VgUJ3o-k3wtJu6Vp5w

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, May 3 2008 8:39 pm
From: "D. Spencer Hines"

Boris Johnson is reportedly the son of his father's first wife, painter
Charlotte Johnson Wahl, the daughter of Sir James Fawcett, a prominent
barrister and president of the European Commission of Human Rights.
[Wikipedia]

So, if that's true -- he's probably all Brit [English?] on his mother's
side.

But born in New York in 1964.

Deeeeeeeelightful!

He goes Winston one better -- as Winston only had an American mother.

What are the chances this chap could become PM someday not too far away?

Of course there is Cameron...

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Britannicus Traductus Sum

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, May 3 2008 8:45 pm
From: "D. Spencer Hines"

Hilarious!

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Britannicus Traductus Sum
--------------------------------------------

Jamie Oliver

Johnson was criticised at the 2006 Conservative party conference for his
comments regarding the campaign for healthier school dinners headed by
celebrity TV chef Jamie Oliver. He stated, "I say let people eat what they
like. Why shouldn't they push pies through the railings? I would ban
sweets from school - but this pressure to bring in healthy food is too
much."

Earlier at the conference, David Cameron, the Tory party leader, had lauded
Oliver's campaign as an example of "social responsibility in action".
Johnson has since described Oliver as a "national saint" and a
"messiah". [Wikipedia]

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, May 3 2008 10:28 pm
From: Matt Osborn

On Sat, 03 May 2008 23:28:38 -0400, Sharky <shark@he11sgates.org>
wrote:

>Matt Osborn wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 4 May 2008 00:06:29 +0100, "D. Spencer Hines"
>><panther@excelsior.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Charming...
>>>
>>>DSH
>>>
>>>Lux et Veritas et Libertas
>>>
>>>Deus Vult
>>>-----------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>"If gay marriage was OK - and I was uncertain on the issue - then I saw no
>>>reason in principle why a union should not be consecrated between three men,
>>>as well as two men, or indeed three men and a dog."
>>>
>>>Boris Johnson
>>>
>>>_Friends, Voters, Countrymen_ (2001)
>>>
>>
>>Like children, it is doubtful that dogs can give informed consent.
>
>That doesn't appear to be an issue in India.
>
>Indian man marries dog...
>http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gG1WFhskR8VgUJ3o-k3wtJu6Vp5w

"The dog is only for lifting the curse and after that, he plans to get
a real bride," a friend of the groom said."

The dog or the groom?

-- msosborn at msosborn dot com

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, May 3 2008 11:42 pm
From: "D. Spencer Hines"

"The 1990s were a decade of brilliance for Boris, capped in 1999 with the
editorship of The Spectator. He was still only 35 but this prize was far
from the limits of his ambition. As a youngster, he once confided to a
friend that he would like to be President of the United States. (His birth
in New York made this possible, albeit ludicrous)."

He'd no doubt be a far better CANDIDATE than many we've seen in recent
years.

He's welcome to try...

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas
-----------------------------------------

From The Times

May 3, 2008

How Boris Johnson finally grew up to grasp his shot at redemption

Francis Elliott, Deputy Political Editor

Shortly before Christmas, David Cameron phoned Boris Johnson at his home in
North London. It was not a social call.

The Tory leader had been unsure from the start about Mr Johnson as a mayoral
candidate. With three months to go before the start of the formal campaign
there was little sign of progress. How, Mr Cameron inquired, did Boris
intend to take the fight to Ken Livingstone?

The two men have known each other for almost 25 years. At Eton, at Oxford,
in the media and in politics their lives have touched, diverged and touched
again. Now their fates have became wound together in the most extraordinary
fashion.

For the majority of their acquaintanceship, Mr Cameron has bobbed in the
older man's wake. Boris Johnson was enjoying fame even as David Cameron,
then a 13-year-old new boy, first saw that blond mop. Honours fell to the
young Boris almost in inverse proportion to the amount of effort he made to
secure them. He was considered brilliant at Eton: Cameron was not for most
of his school career.

Boris was elected to Pop, a pupil-selected elite: the schoolboy Cameron was
not. It is not clear whether Johnson helped to elect his younger peer to the
Bullingdon. It seems almost certain that he helped to trash Mr Cameron's
room at Brasenose College, the ritual welcome to Oxford's most notorious
dining club.

<G> -- DSH

By the time that Mr Cameron joined Conservative Central Office his
near-contemporary was already making his name as a journalist, most notably
as The Daily Telegraph's Brussels correspondent. It was said that Mr Johnson
was Margaret Thatcher's favourite journalist. Mr Cameron has admitted that
his own encounters with Mrs Thatcher while she was Prime Minister were
unlikely to have left her with a favourable impression, if indeed any
impression at all.

<G> -- DSH

The 1990s were a decade of brilliance for Boris, capped in 1999 with the
editorship of The Spectator. He was still only 35 but this prize was far
from the limits of his ambition. As a youngster, he once confided to a
friend that he would like to be President of the United States. (His birth
in New York made this possible, albeit ludicrous).

By now Messrs Johnson and Cameron were joined by a third combatant, George
Osborne. The three were asked by Iain Duncan Smith to help him to prepare
for Prime Minister's Questions. It was a demanding brief but one that Mr
Cameron performed dutifully despite enduring a very difficult time after the
birth of his disabled son, Ivan. While Mr Cameron arrived punctually at his
party leader's office at 7am, despite sometimes having spent the night on a
hospital floor, Boris Johnson would breeze in hours later and contribute
little of use.

For men such as Mr Cameron and Mr Osborne, veterans of the party machine, it
would have been hard not to share in the whips' view that their colleague
lacked both seriousness and application. It was an opinion that Michael
Howard barely bothered to conceal. When he took over as party leader he
first left Mr Johnson out of his Shadow Cabinet and then sacked him from the
front bench. Given that Mr Cameron was part of the Howard inner circle it
seems likely that he had some part in this dismissal.

Hmmmmmmmm... -- DSH

It must have stung deeply when Mr Cameron left him out of his first Shadow
Cabinet on being made leader. Mr Johnson had been one of only 14 MPs to
back him from the start in the 2005 leadership election. When mild
criticism of Jamie Oliver by Mr Johnson provoked a media storm that
threatened to overshadow Mr Cameron's first speech as leader to a party
conference in 2006, fears that Brand Boris was too big and dangerous
increased.

Whatever he might say now, it is clear that Mr Cameron was not enthusiastic
about a Boris candidature when it was first floated. For Mr Johnson it was
a shot at redemption. "There is no doubt that there has been a growing-up
process," said an insider. "This was something where charm alone would
never be enough." By December Mr Johnson feared that his campaign was not
equal to the task. "He started to worry, I think, that he couldn't win it,"
an observer said. Mr Cameron and, more particularly, Mr Osborne, who was
handling the London mayoral campaign at Tory HQ, had come to the same
conclusion.

The result was the arrival of Lynton Crosby. The Australian political
consultant is credited with turning the campaign around. It was decided to
pursue a strategy that concentrated on Tory-leaning boroughs.

Today Mr Cameron is full of praise, both in public and private, for his
candidate.

Victory has a hundred fathers while defeat is an orphan. -- DSH

[Oft credited to JFK, who used it, without accreditation, after his fiasco
at the Bay of Pigs but actually filched by Ted Sorensen from the Fascist
leader and son-in-law of Mussolini, Count Ciano, who filched it from
Tacitus, who may have filched it from Euripides. <g>] -- DSH [La victoria
trova cento padri, a nessuno vuole riconoscere l'insuccesso. -- Ciano]

The final credit for a Johnson victory would have to go to the candidate.
He has laundered his reputation as a gaffe-prone, lightweight idler with a
campaign of energy and discipline. Homer's Iliad is Johnson's central text.

Part of the charm of Boris Johnson is that he invites his public to see his
life in heroic terms.

<G> -- DSH

Even if his campaign were to end in defeat it would be cast as an heroic
failure. But Boris thinks he is better than that. Flawed but brilliant, he
wants to take his place in the field of honour where he has always thought
that he belonged.

Ascent of Boris

-- Born June 19, 1964

-- School: Eton College (captain of school)

-- College: Balliol College, Oxford University, 2:1 in classics

-- Media CV: The Times (sacked) The Daily Telegraph, The Spectator

-- Elected MP for Henley 2001, appointed to front bench 2004

==============================================================================
TOPIC: U.S. soldiers: Heroes or Dupes? [ The Fog of War ]
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.military.naval/browse_thread/thread/2d5a9834ef4f7ab3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, May 3 2008 7:07 pm
From: "Sean"

a.. Ho Chi Minh - 1st President of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam
a..
a.. "All men are created equal. They are endowed by their Creator with
certain inalienable rights, among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit
of Happiness" [1]
a..
a.. So begins the Vietnamese declaration of independence written personally
by Ho Chi Minh after fighting a long war of resistance as an American ally
against both Imperial Japan and Vichy France.
a..
a..
a.. "Nothing is more valuable than independence and freedom."
a.. "I follow only one party: the Vietnamese party."
a.. "You can kill ten of our men for every one we kill of yours. But even at
those odds, you will lose and we will win." - referring to France and
America in their wars in Vietnam.
a.. "It is better to sacrifice everything than to live in slavery!"
a.. "The Vietnamese people deeply love independence, freedom and peace. But
in the face of United States aggression they have risen up, united as one
man."
a.. "We have to win independence at any cost, even if the Truong Son
mountains burn."
a.. "In (Lenin's Theses on the National and Colonial Questions) there were
political terms that were difficult to understand. But by reading them again
and again finally I was able to grasp the essential part. What emotion,
enthusiasm, enlightenment and confidence they communicated to me! I wept for
joy. Sitting by myself in my room, I would shout as if I were addressing
large crowds: "Dear martyr compatriots! This is what we need, this is our
path to liberation!" Since then (the 1920s) I had entire confidence in
Lenin, in the Third International!"
a.. "When the prison doors are opened, the real dragon will fly out."
a.. "It was patriotism, not communism, that inspired me."
a.. "Remember, the storm is a good opportunity for the pine and the cypress
to show their strength and their stability."
a.. "My only desire is that all of our Party and people, closely united in
struggle, construct a peaceful, unified, independent, democratic and
prosperous, and make a valiant contribution to the world Revolution."
(Hanoi, May 10, 1969.)
a.. "Better to eat the French dung for 100 years than the Chinese dung for
1,000."[28]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ho_Chi_Minh

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, May 3 2008 7:13 pm
From: "Sean"

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gulf of Tonkin and the Westmoreland expansion
For more details on the decision to escalate the American involvement, see
Gulf of Tonkin Incident.
For more details on U.S. covert activities in Southeast Asia, see Studies
and Observations Group.

Commandant of the Marine Corps Wallace Greene (left), III MAF commander
General Robert Cushman (center), and General Westmoreland (right).
On 27 July 1964, 5,000 additional U.S. military advisers were ordered to the
Republic of Vietnam (RVN or South Vietnam), bringing the total American
troop level to 21,000. Shortly thereafter an incident occurred off the coast
of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam (North Vietnam) that was destined to
escalate the conflict to new levels and lead to the full scale
Americanization of the war which was soon to be quickly ended.

On the evening of 2 August 1964, the destroyer USS Maddox was conducting an
electronic intelligence collection mission in international waters (even as
claimed by North Vietnam) in the Gulf of Tonkin when it was attacked by
three P-4 torpedo boats of the North Vietnamese Navy. Reports later reached
the Johnson administration saying that the Maddox was under attack. Two
nights later, after being joined by the destroyer C. Turnet Joy, the Maddox
again reported that both vessels were under attack (this event, which took
place under adverse weather conditions, in fact never occurred) President
Johnson addressed Congress asking for more political power to utilize
American military power in South Vietnam using the attack on the Maddox as
cause to get what he wanted.

There was rampant confusion in Washington, but the incident was seen by the
administration as the perfect opportunity to present Congress with "a
pre-dated declaration of war" by utilizing the incident as an opportunity to
strengthen weakening morale in South Vietnam through reprisal attacks by the
U.S. on the North.[7] Even before confirmation of the phantom attack had
been received in Washington, President Johnson had decided that an attack
could not go unanswered.

Just before midnight he appeared on television and announced that
retaliatory air strikes were underway against North Vietnamese naval and
port facilities. Neither Congress nor the American people learned the whole
story about the events in the Gulf of Tonkin until the publication of the
Pentagon Papers in 1969. It was on the basis of the administration's
assertions that the attacks were "unprovoked aggression" on the part of
North Vietnam, that the United States Congress approved the Southeast Asia
Resolution (also known as the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution) on 7 August. The
law gave the President broad powers to conduct military operations without
an actual declaration of war. The resolution passed unanimously in the House
of Representatives and was opposed in the Senate by only two members.

National Security Council members, including United States Secretary of
Defense Robert McNamara, Secretary of State Dean Rusk, and General Maxwell
Taylor, agreed on 28 November to recommend that Johnson adopt a plan for a
two-stage escalation of the bombing of North Vietnam.

----------------------------------------------------------

a.. SEE WIKI LINK BELOW FOR TIMELINE OF US INVOLVEMENT
a..
a.. 1 Timeline
a.. 1.1 Harry S. Truman (1945-1953)
b.. 1.2 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
c.. 1.3 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
a.. 2 Kennedy, the Cold War, the Second Indochina War, and Vietnam
a.. 3 Americanization
a.. 3.1 Gulf of Tonkin and the Westmoreland expansion
b.. 3.2 Operation Rolling Thunder, 1965-1968
c.. 3.3 Build-up
d.. 3.4 Search and destroy, the strategy of attrition
e.. 3.5 Border battles and the Tet Offensive
f.. 3.6 My Lai Massacre
a.. 4 Vietnamization and withdrawal of U.S. forces, 1969-1974
a.. 4.1 Pentagon Papers
b.. 4.2 Operation Menu and the Cambodian campaign, 1969-1970
c.. 4.3 Lam Son 719
d.. 4.4 Easter Offensive
e.. 4.5 Election of 1972 and Operation Linebacker II
f.. 4.6 Return to Paris

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role_of_United_States_in_the_Vietnam_War#Kennedy_and_Vietnam

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, May 3 2008 7:56 pm
From: "Matt Wiser"

"Sean" <wazzup@bro.org> wrote:
>
Your second post only proves that Ho was a Communist, in his own words. You apparently
ignore the fact that beginning in 1948 and going until the late 1980s, the Red Menace was
very real to a great many people not only in the U.S., but in other parts of the world. Anyone
who appeared to be a puppet of either Moscow or the ChiComs was considered a threat to
the U.S. and its allies, period. Maybe if Ho had said "I have more in common with Marshal
Tito than with Khruschev, maybe the U.S. would've listened to him. Maybe. The U.S. goal
was simple: an independent, non-Communist South Vietnam, and a neutral Laos and
Cambodia. The goal was not realized, but we sure as hell gave it a try. And explain that if
Communism in SEA was such a good idea, why did hundreds of thousands flee Vietnam,
Laos, and Cambodia to start new lives in North America, Australia, and Western Europe
rather than live under a Communist government, hmm?

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, May 3 2008 7:57 pm
From: "Billzz"

"La N" <nilita2004NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Bz8Tj.338$KB3.202@edtnps91...
>
> "Billzz" <billzzstring@starband.net> wrote in message
> news:8cd26$481d0c32$9440b19b$26289@STARBAND.NET...
>> "La N" <nilita2004NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1V6Tj.324$KB3.162@edtnps91...
>>>
>>> "Peter Skelton" <skeltonp@cogeco.ca> wrote in message
>>> news:m0up149blls86plc54d5nvtmianp61sdo2@4ax.com...
>>>> On Sat, 03 May 2008 15:11:32 -0700, Colin Campbell
>>>> <activated_95b@gmail.com (remove underscore)> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Sat, 3 May 2008 15:44:11 +1000, "Sean" <wazzup@bro.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Colin Campbell" <activated_95b@gmail.com (remove underscore)> wrote
>>>>>>in
>>>>>>message news:a5an14hsom7i826ajie89uoednr5pmmnu9@4ax.com...
>>>>>>> On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 19:35:57 GMT, Vince Brannigan
>>>>>>> <firelaw@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>The image of the USA as a swaggering bully is well entrenched. As a
>>>>>>>>result , no on really cares whether we get attacked. Swaggering
>>>>>>>>bullies
>>>>>>>>go it alone.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If that is the case how come so many nations are busy trying to
>>>>>>> repair
>>>>>>> their relations with our country?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Because you need all the help and insight you can get. There's so
>>>>>>little at
>>>>>>home, other people come to visit to try to engage those under the
>>>>>>President
>>>>>>that are smarter and sharper. Other people know this current crop of
>>>>>>nutters
>>>>>>will soon be replaced in Jan 2009, so other nations see an new
>>>>>>opportunity
>>>>>>to re-engage with the elephant in the china shop that's been running
>>>>>>amok
>>>>>>for 8 years.
>>>>>
>>>>>Really?
>>>>>
>>>>>Then how come Canada, Germany and France elected new leaders who
>>>>>promised to repair their nations relations with our country years ago?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> If you think that that had anything to do with the Harper's
>>>> election, you are even dumber than I thought.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Indeed.
>>>
>>> It's f*ing hilarious how Colin interprets world events to fit his
>>> skewered vision of the world (or rather, how he thinks the world should
>>> be).
>>>
>>> - nilita
>>
>> I have nothing to do with this, but I do see alt.philosophy in the header
>> so I throw out my philosophy about this sort of thing which is that I try
>> not to say anything about anybody else's comments, but take them as they
>> are, and never argue about my own, because it is what it is and there is
>> no sense in the unending arguments that seem to go on forever, like this
>> sentence, which is because I suspect I may have Alzheimer's after hiding
>> my own Easter eggs, and I am still looking, but anyway, everyone is
>> entitled to their own opinion, and I don't have to say anything about it,
>> although it is probably better for the whole of western civilization if
>> one were to not have a confrontative and argumentative manner when
>> presenting a view. But what do I know? Anyway, I meet new, and
>> interesting people each day. Funny how they all seem to know my name.
>>
>
> Well, Colonel, would it be that we all suffered from Alzheimer's and the
> world would seem so much simpler. But, we don't. And you know what? I
> agree with you much of the time inasmuch as my killfile is well padded
> with those minds that are firmly entrenched. But, you know what?
> Conflict in life is inevitable and actually promotes understanding if it
> is done in a constructive way. There is absolutely no way in
> H-E-Double-Hockeysticks that we are all going to be on the same page for
> so many reasons including cultural differences, upbringing, life
> experiences, etc. I sing potayto in my squeaky soprano, whereas you croon
> potahto in your baritone. It would be cool if people could just agree to
> disagree. But in Usenet that is just so damned rare.
>
> But, here's my personal "philosophy" about Usenet, as in all leisure
> activities - if it ain't fun, funny, informative, passionate, edgy, it
> ain't worth it.
>
> Anyway, I'm recovering from a viral pneumonia, so everything that I post
> should just be taken with the proverbial grain of salt ...%)
>
> - nilita

Have the grain of salt on the rim of a Margarita glass, and the ills will be
easier to take.

I am actually not a baritone, but sing Bass II (basso profundo) in the
Cantare Chorale.

http://cantarechorale.com/

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, May 3 2008 8:08 pm
From: "Matt Wiser"

"Sean" <wazzup@bro.org> wrote:
>
Iraq and Vietnam are two different wars, under two different sets of circumstances, and
with different goals, and methods used to achieve those goals. The analogy is lacking.
The Iraqi insurgents sure aren't the VC, and there's no NVA waiting across the border of
either Syria or Iran to waltz in once the U.S. leaves. Not to mention the fact that there is no
single insurgent goup or banner-despite AQ's insistence to the contrary. Throw in many of
the Sunnis are now pro-government and against both AQ and the Shia militias (many backed
by Iran). AQ's on the ropes, and Sadr's Mehdi Army is next, if they're not already. Not to
mention that most Shia despise Sadr and his brand of Shia Islam-it's too closely ID'd with
Iran, and an Iranian-style religious dictatorship is something most Shia (not to mention all
Sunnis) don't want any part of. When you've got generals like Petraus, and his deputy
Ray Oderno, who's been called "the Patton of Counterinsurgency", things are looking up for
the good guys. And your anti-Americanism? Shove it and enjoy killfile. PLONK.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: My Fellow Americans: Bend Over
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.military.naval/browse_thread/thread/edb0141de24942f1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, May 3 2008 7:27 pm
From: Hugh Gibbons

In article <7a9p14tull9g511cmil5eqv1d0kike0bu3@4ax.com>,
Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> wrote:

> BL5511 <pb5511@gmail.com> used a stick in the sand to babble
> >Instead of tax rebate, the $140 billion could be used to build 70
> >power plants using geo-thermo, wind, nuclear, and solar power.
>
> Good idea. A teaspoon in a bucket but a start just the same.
>
> > And the
> >extra power generated can be used to convert all diesel trains to
> >electric, plugin hybrid vehicle, and replace fuel for heating.
>
> I could see the train thing and plugins are inevitable. Heating fuel
> can be entirely replaced with electricity.

I don't see how. I mean, maybe eventually, in 30 years or so at the
soonest.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, May 3 2008 11:45 pm
From: Governor Swill

Hugh Gibbons <hugh_gibbons@dontsendmeemail.net> used a stick in the
sand to babble
>> I could see the train thing and plugins are inevitable. Heating fuel
>> can be entirely replaced with electricity.
>
>I don't see how. I mean, maybe eventually, in 30 years or so at the
>soonest.

The heating fuel? Wouldn't take but a few years for every oil furnace
house to be switched to electric. That said, when the power goes out
and all the heat you have is electric, you got nothing.

Swill
--
Shift Happens
"Welcome to reality. Enjoy your visit.
Slow thinkers keep right." - Peter Principle
(US)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljbI-363A2Q&feature=related
http://preview.tinyurl.com/33cvso
(UK)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeoKQbT8BKs&feature=related
http://preview.tinyurl.com/6nd7kr

==============================================================================
TOPIC: PBS Series: "The Carrier"
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.military.naval/browse_thread/thread/5025c549431b4421?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, May 3 2008 7:29 pm
From: mike

On May 3, 10:23 am, "Jeff Crowell" <jeffDOTcrow...@hp.com> wrote:

> Subjectively, it feels like the acceleration is pretty constant.
> If you guesstimate track length as 300 feet (by eye, the flight deck
> of the Nimitz class is about 3.5 'cat tracks' long) and endspeed of
> 145 knots, stroke time of 2 seconds, that comes out to 10.8Gs.
> It does cage your eyeballs pretty well!
>
> Given the volume of steam that's passing through one or two valves,
> I suspect acceleration may drop off with distance traveled. Only
> way I can see to avoid that would be to have more valves open
> along the track as the piston proceeds on its merry way, that
> way you could hold pressure nearly constant..

Thats one of the neat things about high pressure steam.

It keeps expanding-- something that multi-stage turbines
(and old compound cylinder engines) take well advantage of.

Its also why its so dangerous when its vented. A 60psi boiler
popping is far,far worse than a same size airtank pressurized
to 250psi. Even a home waterheater with a bad relief valve
can do amazing amounts of damage

**
mike
**

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Prime Minister Winston Churchill -- Just After Pearl Harbor
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.military.naval/browse_thread/thread/b8d016f78bf32b10?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, May 3 2008 7:31 pm
From: "D. Spencer Hines"

You're Quite Welcome.

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

"Jack G." <jgranade@pioneernet.net> wrote in message
news:2737f6c7-ab12-4152-a8a0-e7fd1ec6dc8b@c19g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

On May 3, 5:35 pm, "D. Spencer Hines" <pant...@excelsior.com> wrote:
> "Tiglath" <te...@tiglath.net> wrote in message
>
> news:VTyjh.6927$Rc5.1173@trnddc01...
>
> > "D. Spencer Hines" <poguemid...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:cuwjh.298$qW.778@eagle.america.net...

> >> Hilarious!
>
> >> The pogues who were ranting so stupidly before, sans either historical
> >> facts or evidence for their anserine assertions and pogueish emotions,
> >> have been thoroughly dispatched, kicked in the arse and sent packing.
>
> >> So, they have run for the tall grass with their tails between their
> >> legs
> >> and are now hiding there -- humbly licking their wounds, weeping,
> >> muttering to each other incoherently, eating worms and pondering
> >> over their abject, crushing defeat.
>
> >> Capital!
>
> >> Life Is Good!
>
> >> How Sweet It Is!
>
> > And... inflicted unequivocally by a citizen of the nation that saved
> > their asses, of all people.
>
> > German is not too bad to have as a mother tongue, I don't know why they
> > are so afraid.
>
> --------------------------------------------
>
> True...
>
> The EDUCATED, Historically-Aware Brits AGREE with ME, of course or are
> silent, OR toss stinking Red Herrings about the Napoleonic Wars and the
> Duke
> of Wellington into the discussion.
>
> I have extensively quoted and cited the verbatim words of Winston
> Churchill,
> the British Prime Minister at the time, HIMSELF, writing with plenty of
> time
> to collect his thoughts and papers, in the 1950's and publish in 1961 [The
> Gathering Storm] ---- as well as a British Diplomat, Peter Broom, in 2006
> and even the Left-Wing, often Anti-American _Guardian_ in 2006.
>
> The little rampant Brit pogues and poguettes have quoted and cited ZIP
> POINT
> ZERO.
>
> All they can do is make increasingly hysterical Anserine Assertions.
> Their
> American, Lickspittle Allies have abandoned them and fled to the tall
> grass
> and the presumed safety of their bunkers.
>
> The Rampant-Pogue, uneducated Brits are so stupid and uneducated -- True
> Untermenschen -- that they do not realize the Critical Importance of Lend
> Lease -- WELL before the Pearl Harbor Attack.
>
> Without Lend Lease the Brits would not have been able to survive during
> 1941-1945.
>
> Smart Brits Admit That....
>
> As I Have Proven.
>
> The General Election of 1935 was the Brits last chance to set things
> aright,
> begin a concerted Preparedness Campaign to counter Hitler, build up their
> Armed Forces and work themselves out of the hole they had crawled into --
> but they blew it -- neither Baldwin nor Lansbury was a Good Choice.
>
> [N.B. Angela Lansbury, the first-rate British actress [_The Manchurian
> Candidate_ [original] and _Murder, She Wrote_ [TV] among many other
> triumphs -- as well as Elizabeth Taylor's older sister in _National
> Velvet_
> is the GRANDDAUGHTER of George Lansbury, the Leader of the Labour Party in
> 1935.]
>
> George was a pacifist.
>
> "The East Fulham by-election in June 1933 was dominated by the issue of
> rearmament against Nazi Germany. Lansbury as Labour Leader sent a message
> to the constituency:
>
> "I would close every recruiting station, disband the Army and disarm the
> Air Force. I would abolish the whole dreadful equipment of war and say to
> the world "do your worst"."
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Lansbury
>
> And the World -- in the person of Adolf Hitler and his Nazis -- did
> precisely that -- to Britain's eternal rue.
>
> Too Late Smart.
>
> Stanley Baldwin The Appeaser was no better choice than George Lansbury The
> Pacifist in 1935.
>
> The General Election of 1935 -- Producing Anserine Results -- Stupid
> Decisions by the British People.
>
> They should read John F. Kennedy's _Why England Slept_, today, for a
> starter
> source -- to be followed up by reading Churchill's _WHILE ENGLAND SLEPT: A
> Survey of World Affairs 1932 - 1938_ which many of them have probably
> never
> read either.
>
> History has a Long Reach and is Unforgiving.
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> They would probably have been allowed to continue speaking English at
> home -- the Old Folks would find it hard to give up and the German
> Übermenschen, being far more witting and intelligent than the Brits, would
> understand that and make allowances
>
> Many Germans, of course, see English as a corrupted, lower-class,
> Untermenschen version of German -- even lower on the totem pole than
> Dutch.
>
> German would be required in the workplace no doubt and taught in the
> schools, while English would be dropped.
>
> Anyone who wanted to get ahead with their German Masters would want to
> take
> special German lessons after school or work.
>
> British school children would read Goethe rather than Shakespeare. Bach,
> Mozart, Beethoven and Wagner would be heard everywhere.
>
> Nietzsche would be an essential part of the New Curriculum in all
> grades --
> and Smith, Locke, Hume and Freud would be consigned to the rubbish bin.
>
> The Spanish, Portuguese and Italians would snicker at the poor-white-trash
> British and vacation there in the summers -- "because its cheap, the women
> are quite pliable and willing, but often have bad teeth so keep their
> mouths
> either closed or full of something -- and the waiters know their place."
>
> British food would change markedly -- for the better.
>
> <G>
>
> DSH
>
> Lux et Veritas et Libertas
>
> Exitus Acta Probat
>
> Veni, Vidi, Calcitravi Asinum
>
> Britannicus Traductus Sum

>>This is a great post and I give it 5 stars. Thank you for bringing back
>>some important history that seems to have been over looked by the left.
>
>>>Jack G.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Wright A Tool Being Used By Hillary Supporter To Destroy Obama?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.military.naval/browse_thread/thread/a153c0863f2ac048?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, May 3 2008 8:04 pm
From: "Singanas@Texasgulfcoast"

On May 3, 11:46 am, Bert Hyman <b...@iphouse.com> wrote:
> Innews:fu2p14p2a8be4k48hoa133v9vdnv78360p@4ax.comProfessor Irwin Corey
>
> <prof.co...@whatsamatter.edu> wrote:
> > Reading comprehension being low on your list of priorities,
>
> Good luck.
>
> --
> Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN b...@iphouse.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Before this thread changes to another topic, I must add
that I cannot defend "Mein Kampf" as "great lit" because
my library is divided between Houston and the coast.
The closest thing to "Mein Kampf" here on the Gulf coast
is MIT HITLER IM WESTEN. The chapter I read and quoted
in Usenet
last year probably had a superior translator. Someone said
(Vince B. ?) that Hitler dictated his autobiography, whereas my
impression is that he wrote the book to kill time while imprisoned.

As for Mr. Swallow's remark that I am trolling... How is that
possible
when (1) I am a member of the NG and (2) the topic is a question ?
When Hines asks a question to the group, how can a member of
the group who answers be labeled a troll ? This is another example
of Mr. Swallow's lack of cerebral capacitance. Definitely a
member of Wikipedia's targeted demographic.

Cheers, David H
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, May 3 2008 8:26 pm
From: "D. Spencer Hines"

Hitler dictated _Mein Kampf_ to Rudolf Hess and Emil Maurice, his chauffeur,
while all three were comfortably ensconced in Landsberg Prison -- after the
failed Munich Beer Hall Putsch of 1923.

So, you were roughly "half right" -- say 40% -- because Hitler didn't
dictate it "to kill time".

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

"Singanas@Texasgulfcoast" <davidholiman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a57cb569-538f-47bb-8a0e-730c98ad952b@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...

> Someone said
> (Vince B. ?) that Hitler dictated his autobiography, whereas my
> impression is that he wrote the book to kill time while imprisoned.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Second LCS Launched
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.military.naval/browse_thread/thread/9f636da259c4bc9c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, May 3 2008 9:53 pm
From: PaPaPeng

On Sat, 3 May 2008 16:47:31 -0700 (PDT), dumpster4@hotmail.com wrote:

>On Apr 30, 8:37 pm, dumpst...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> See:
>>
>> http://defensenews.com/story.php?i=3505906&c=AME&s=SEA

Quote from URL: The ship first saw the sun April 26 when workers at
Austal USA moved the striking, aluminum-hulled trimaran out of its
building shed and onto a floating drydock.

From WIKI: The sinking of the Sheffield is sometimes blamed on a
superstructure made wholly or partially from aluminium, the melting
point and ignition temperature of which are significantly lower than
those of steel. However, this is incorrect as the Sheffield's
superstructure was made entirely of steel.[6] The confusion is related
to the US and British Navies abandoning aluminium after several fires
in the 1970s involving ships that had aluminium superstructures. The
sinking of the Type 21 frigates HMS Antelope and Ardent, both of which
had aluminium superstructures, probably also had an effect on this
belief though these cases are again incorrect and the presence of
aluminium had nothing to do with their loss. In both cases, it is
likely the ships would have been lost in any event, due to amount of
explosives involved in such small ships, though aluminium fires did
break out.

Wouldn't combat experience suggest that aluminum is not a good
material for the construction of combat ships? Above a certain
temperature aluminun melts and congtributes to fuel a very hot fire.
Think thermite.
>
>
>Another picture:
>
>http://www.blackfive.net/photos/uncategorized/2008/05/02/in20dock20prior20to20launch.jpg

==============================================================================
TOPIC: UK: Soldiering Unpopular
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.military.naval/browse_thread/thread/178e361577cd77c9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, May 3 2008 9:57 pm
From: PaPaPeng

On Sat, 3 May 2008 23:34:21 +0100, "William Black"
<william.black@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

.
>
>The Chinese army can obviously be safely ignored. Everyone else ignores
>it...

That's what Nehru and Krishna Menon figured too.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: QUYANG HUAYU Sculpture
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.military.naval/browse_thread/thread/0fbe59d76c6c2143?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, May 3 2008 11:39 pm
From: shenlishu520@yahoo.cn

QUYANG HUAYU Sculpture
Carving handicraft products: Fountain, gate, building, fireplace,
flowerpot, garden, table and chair, and marble carving.
http://www.ogogo123sina.cn/Fireplace.htm

==============================================================================

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Sunday, May 4, 2008

22 new messages in 10 topics - digest

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