The Captain: 25 new messages in 12 topics

sci.military.naval
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.military.naval?hl=en

sci.military.naval@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: John McCain & Condoleezza Rice
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.military.naval/browse_thread/thread/1bce77a65ab949f0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 8 2008 7:40 am
From: Jack Linthicum

On Apr 8, 10:36 am, "deemsb...@aol.com" <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Apr 8, 10:30 am, Fred J. McCall <fmcc...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "deemsb...@aol.com" <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > :
> > : He's going to end up with someone to his right. He needs to shore up
> > :the conservatives and hope the Dems self-destruct....and that the
> > :economy doesn't totally tank.
> > :
>
> > I'm not sure that's a given, although it is certainly the conventional
> > wisdom.
>
> > This is another one of those places where McCain would probably be
> > better served to listen to his own inner voices rather than the
> > 'politics as usual' crowd.
>
> That would be nice, but if he picks someone more liberal, that
> increases the chance that there will be a conservative
> revolt....either a third party run or just staying at home. McCain
> needs the conservatives to have a chance. Conservatives also need
> McCain, but politics are rarely rational.

The conservative movement is slowly dying because its big names are
actually dying. The group called fundamentalists have more community
interests than gay marriage and abortion. They want to Christianize
not politicize.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 8 2008 7:38 am
From: "D. Spencer Hines"

More Uninformed Twaddle From Pogue Linthicum...

We've already HAD an African-American Governor of a Southern state, since
Reconstruction...

Douglas Wilder, of Virginia, a DEMOCRAT served as Governor of Virginia from
1990 to 1994. He is currently Mayor of Richmond, Virginia.

How soon Pogue Linthicum forgets.

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas
------------------------------------------

"Jack Linthicum" <jacklinthicum@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:ecf37e4a-42b4-4bb0-b53e-

>> I've always thought that the first black or woman president would
>> be a Republican... Colin Powell, Elizabeth Dole, etc. I just might be
>> wrong...if the economy goes down as badly as it looks, McCain is
>> toast. If the economy is doing okay, I think he has a better than even
>> chance....

> Yes, the first black governor of a southern state or the first black
> senator from a similar state. When, like not within the foreseeable
> future.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 8 2008 8:22 am
From: "D. Spencer Hines"

Dead Wrong Again...

Pogue Linthicum is on a roll.

Douglas Wilder is certainly living and is Mayor of Richmond, Virginia.

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

"Jack Linthicum" <jacklinthicum@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:2f0dca4e-7ffa-4aa2-b8c4-858f81dfb58d@b64g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...

>> > Yes, the first black governor of a southern state or the first black
>> > senator from a similar state. When, like not within the foreseeable
>> > future.
>>
>> Both of those have already occurred. You might want to add
>> "modern" :-)
>
> Better, living

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 8 2008 8:41 am
From: Fred J. McCall

"La N" <nilita2004NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote:

:
:"a425couple" <a425couple@hotmail.com> wrote in message
:news:MKadnU5KrOs04mbanZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@comcast.com...
:> " >
:> I will admit, that at start of 2001, I had some hope that
:> during the next term or two, that either C. Powell or C. Rice
:> might get themselves in position to run for POTUS or VP.
:> (Just as a couple decades ago I'd looked hopefully for
:> Libby Dole or Nancy Kasenbaum to get into such
:> stature.) It just did not happen.
:
:I always liked C. Powell. Unfortunately the aforementioned women would have
:to display the intestinal fortitude of Hillary in order to withstand the
:blood sport of politicking for the highest office. Unfortunately, if they
:did so, they would have to tolerate the same crap that Hillary is receiving.
:I'm not saying that I'm a fan of Hill's (I'm not), but a lot of the comments
:about/against her are sexist ugly. I think that, thus far, most Americans
:prefer to see women in the Oval Office more as genteel first ladies.
:

You mean as opposed to them being power-hungry bitches on wheels?
Yeah, I suppose you're right there.

I would like Hillary even less if she were male. She is all the worst
parts of the Clinton political machine with none of the charming parts
(which Bill seems to have left somewhere, as well).

--
You are
What you do
When it counts.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 8 2008 8:43 am
From: Fred J. McCall

"deemsbill@aol.com" <deemsbill@aol.com> wrote:

:On Apr 8, 10:30 am, Fred J. McCall <fmcc...@earthlink.net> wrote:
:> "deemsb...@aol.com" <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote:
:>
:> :
:> : He's going to end up with someone to his right. He needs to shore up
:> :the conservatives and hope the Dems self-destruct....and that the
:> :economy doesn't totally tank.
:> :
:>
:> I'm not sure that's a given, although it is certainly the conventional
:> wisdom.
:>
:> This is another one of those places where McCain would probably be
:> better served to listen to his own inner voices rather than the
:> 'politics as usual' crowd.
:>
:
: That would be nice, but if he picks someone more liberal, that
:increases the chance that there will be a conservative
:revolt....either a third party run or just staying at home. McCain
:needs the conservatives to have a chance. Conservatives also need
:McCain, but politics are rarely rational.
:

And this is the conventional wisdom. But McCain also needs the
moderates and he won't get them by running too far to the right.

NEITHER party seems to realize that it's the 'swing middle' that
elects Presidents and that toadying to the 'party base' simply won't
get you into the White House and will alienate the very votes you need
to win.

--
"Most people don't realize it, but ninety percent of morality is based
on comfort. Incinerate hundreds of people from thirty thousand feet
up and you'll sleep like a baby afterward. Kill one person with a
bayonet and your dreams will never be sweet again."
-- John Rain, "Rain Storm"

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Fading Signal: The Neglect of Electronic Warfare.
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.military.naval/browse_thread/thread/02d47167e69c025a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 8 2008 7:41 am
From: "William Black"

"Juergen Nieveler" <juergen.nieveler.nospam@arcor.de> wrote in message
news:Xns9A7A96FB9E402juergennieveler@nieveler.org...
>
> BTW, do those jammers send white noise, or are they smart enough to
> fake a signal? Say, I build a small detonator from RC car parts, and it
> depends on the transmitter sending "left, right, left..." every 30
> seconds, with a timer starting on every signal, counting down until the
> opposite side timer is started.
>
> With a white noise jammer, no signal gets through anymore, 30 seconds
> later you get *bang*...

All this stuff came out at the inquest into the people shot in Gib. The
claim was made that the security forces should be able to jam the signal.

They explained in some detail why they couldn't.

It seems that the IRA people used a Trio Radio Amateur 144 MHz pocket radio
system that requires a sequence of reversals transmitted by VHF FSK to
trigger an open channel. The sequence is set by a row of five thumbwheels,
each of ten digits.

So you've got a million, minus one, possible combinations.

I leave as an exercise for the reader the calculation of the linear
recursive sequence necessary to trigger the thing prematurely...

This, of course, assumes the security forces know the radio frequency and
the FSK baud rate and frequency shift.

White noise generators don't work once the bad guys get up to 'radio
amateur' levels of knowledge of triggering technology...

--
William Black

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Medical personnel on USNS vessels?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.military.naval/browse_thread/thread/1cbc3462b055aaf2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 8 2008 7:42 am
From: Tiger

Allen Thomson wrote:
> This is slightly esoteric, but does the medical department on a USNS
> vessel like the TAGOS surveillance ships usually include an MD? Or
> would they have a sub-MD medical tech and depend on evacuation for
> more serious cases?
>
> On a related note, how big does an actual warship have to be to have
> an MD assigned to it?

Hmmmm, a orginal question......
Oft hand I'd say no to the doc. With limted numbers of MD's to go
arround, base facilities and warships to staff; I'd say they would come
up short.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: For the Gun Goofballs...a tribute to Charleton Heston
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.military.naval/browse_thread/thread/2a2b10d666e2d856?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 8 2008 7:50 am
From: Tiger

Dr. James West, Ph.D. wrote:
>
> April 6, 2008
> Charlton Heston passed away at 84
>
> April 8th, 2008
> Steven Gonzales, High school football player shot to death at party
>
> April 7th, 2008
> 3-Year-Old Kills Herself With Parent's Gun
>
> April 7th, 2008
> 3-Year-Old Kills Himself With Sheriff's Sergeant's Gun
>
> April 7th, 2008
> Man Opens Fire on Child's Birthday Party; 5-year-old girl, 48-year-old
> woman dead
>
> April 7th, 2008
> Man Shoots, Kills Girlfriend as She Leaves Church
>
> April 7th, 2008
> Teenager Ends Gas Station Argument With a Gun
>
> April 7th, 2008
> Woman Shot to Death in VFW Parking Lot While Waiting to Pick Up Friend
>
> April 7th, 2008
> Student Killed in Crossfire at College Party
>
> April 7th, 2008
> Dylan Dennie; Middle school student killed with grandmother's gun
>
> April 7th, 2008
> Chinese Food Deliveryman Shot in Mouth
>
> April 7th, 2008
> Police Officer Shot and Killed in Line of Duty
>
> April 7th, 2008
> Gun Violence Takes Another Life in Flint, Michigan
>
> April 7th, 2008
> Son Kills Mom, Dad
>
> April 7th, 2008
> Man in Car With Girlfriend Shot in Head, Killed
>
> April 7th, 2008
> 15-Year-Old Boy Killed in Drive-By Shooting
>
> April 7th, 2008
> "I come to see my daddy and my brother to enjoy myself, and somebody
> killed my daddy and my brother. Oh man."
>
> http://michaelmoore.com/

Off topic, insulting for calling those who own firarms "goofballs." Then
followed by a set of random crime events that could have been achieved
by a knife, bat or a gallon of unleaded & a match.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 8 2008 8:04 am
From: xwkfmo0o@nospam.net

In <47FB8636.2020806@hotmail.com>, on 04/08/2008
at 10:50 AM, Tiger <Lana_sands@hotmail.com> said:

>Dr. James West, Ph.D. wrote:
>>
>> April 6, 2008
>> Charlton Heston passed away at 84
>>
>> April 8th, 2008
>> Steven Gonzales, High school football player shot to death at party
>>
>> April 7th, 2008
>> 3-Year-Old Kills Herself With Parent's Gun
>>
>> April 7th, 2008
>> 3-Year-Old Kills Himself With Sheriff's Sergeant's Gun
>>
>> April 7th, 2008
>> Man Opens Fire on Child's Birthday Party; 5-year-old girl, 48-year-old
>> woman dead
>>
>> April 7th, 2008
>> Man Shoots, Kills Girlfriend as She Leaves Church
>>
>> April 7th, 2008
>> Teenager Ends Gas Station Argument With a Gun
>>
>> April 7th, 2008
>> Woman Shot to Death in VFW Parking Lot While Waiting to Pick Up Friend
>>
>> April 7th, 2008
>> Student Killed in Crossfire at College Party
>>
>> April 7th, 2008
>> Dylan Dennie; Middle school student killed with grandmother's gun
>>
>> April 7th, 2008
>> Chinese Food Deliveryman Shot in Mouth
>>
>> April 7th, 2008
>> Police Officer Shot and Killed in Line of Duty
>>
>> April 7th, 2008
>> Gun Violence Takes Another Life in Flint, Michigan
>>
>> April 7th, 2008
>> Son Kills Mom, Dad
>>
>> April 7th, 2008
>> Man in Car With Girlfriend Shot in Head, Killed
>>
>> April 7th, 2008
>> 15-Year-Old Boy Killed in Drive-By Shooting
>>
>> April 7th, 2008
>> "I come to see my daddy and my brother to enjoy myself, and somebody
>> killed my daddy and my brother. Oh man."
>>
>> http://michaelmoore.com/

>Off topic, insulting for calling those who own firarms "goofballs." Then
>followed by a set of random crime events that could have been achieved
>by a knife, bat or a gallon of unleaded & a match.

Read the thread son. People who want to carry guns about in public places
-- are gun goofballs. And every cop in the country will tell you that
too.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 8 2008 8:08 am
From: "Wayne"

<xwkfmo0o@nospam.net> wrote in message news:JPLKj.6118$Oa2.5118@trndny06...
> In <47FB8636.2020806@hotmail.com>, on 04/08/2008
> at 10:50 AM, Tiger <Lana_sands@hotmail.com> said:
>
>
>
>>Dr. James West, Ph.D. wrote:
>>>
>>> April 6, 2008
>>> Charlton Heston passed away at 84
>>>
>>> April 8th, 2008
>>> Steven Gonzales, High school football player shot to death at party
>>>
snip
>>> April 7th, 2008
>>> "I come to see my daddy and my brother to enjoy myself, and somebody
>>> killed my daddy and my brother. Oh man."
>>>
>>> http://michaelmoore.com/
>
>>Off topic, insulting for calling those who own firarms "goofballs." Then
>>followed by a set of random crime events that could have been achieved
>>by a knife, bat or a gallon of unleaded & a match.
>
> Read the thread son. People who want to carry guns about in public places
> -- are gun goofballs. And every cop in the country will tell you that
> too.
No they won't. In fact, many LEOs encourage CCW for those who can qualify.
Don't have a CCW, do you?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Sigblocks, Ice-Cream & Barbecues
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.military.naval/browse_thread/thread/8f20d9a06c635bcd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 8 2008 7:58 am
From: James Hogg

Well, David,

I see you are up and about and at your computer.

Have you managed to find that quotation in your OED yet?

I thought not.

Look under the verb "oil".

There you will find the quotation which you accused me of inventing:

"Tapes, records, t-shirts, visors..are a few of the many items you
won't want to be without as you oil up the barbeque [sic]."

When you find that, you can type those magic words:

"Sorry, I was wrong."

James

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 8 2008 8:00 am
From: "La N"

"James Hogg" <Jas.HoggOUT@SPAM.gmail.com> wrote in message
news:3p1nv3521dv7g1q32kk1e1k3c834idb8ml@4ax.com...
> Well, David,
>
> I see you are up and about and at your computer.
>
> Have you managed to find that quotation in your OED yet?
>
> I thought not.
>
> Look under the verb "oil".
>
> There you will find the quotation which you accused me of inventing:
>
> "Tapes, records, t-shirts, visors..are a few of the many items you
> won't want to be without as you oil up the barbeque [sic]."
>
> When you find that, you can type those magic words:
>
> "Sorry, I was wrong."
>

Maybe at least a "recte"?

- nilita

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 8 2008 8:21 am
From: James Hogg

On Tue, 08 Apr 2008 15:00:51 GMT, "La N" <nilita2004NOSPAM@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>
>"James Hogg" <Jas.HoggOUT@SPAM.gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:3p1nv3521dv7g1q32kk1e1k3c834idb8ml@4ax.com...
>> Well, David,
>>
>> I see you are up and about and at your computer.
>>
>> Have you managed to find that quotation in your OED yet?
>>
>> I thought not.
>>
>> Look under the verb "oil".
>>
>> There you will find the quotation which you accused me of inventing:
>>
>> "Tapes, records, t-shirts, visors..are a few of the many items you
>> won't want to be without as you oil up the barbeque [sic]."
>>
>> When you find that, you can type those magic words:
>>
>> "Sorry, I was wrong."
>>
>
>Maybe at least a "recte"?

Or a Mea Culpa, to show off the other two Latin words he knows.

On second thoughts, those words are likely to be totally alien to a
narcissist.

"Having been exposed for what he is - a deceitful, treacherous,
malignant egotist - the narcissist's old tricks now fail him.
People are on their guard, their gullibility reduced. The narcissist -
being the rigid, precariously balanced structure that he is - can't
change. He reverts to old forms, re-adopts hoary habits, succumbs to
erstwhile temptations. He is made a mockery by his accentuated denial
of reality, by his obdurate refusal to grow up, an eternal, malformed
child in the sagging body of a decaying man."

from
Malignant Self Love: Narcissism Revisited
by Sam Vaknin

brought to you by James Hogg

James

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 8 2008 8:39 am
From: "D. Spencer Hines"

There He Goes Again!

Pogue Hogg, the composite sock puppet, continues to squirm on the
barbeque -- as he is slowly barbecued in his own fat -- and there is more
than enough of that to do the job, particularly 'round his waist and on his
hindquarters.

Black The Red's sigblock is:

>> I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
>> Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
>> I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
>> All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
>> Time for tea.

William Black
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

One of the better sigblocks one sees on the Internet...

Shades of Rutger Hauer as Roy Batty in Ridley Scott's classic _Blade
Runner_.

ICE-CREAM is an interesting case...

One sees all three -- ICE CREAM, ICE-CREAM and ICECREAM.

The OED seems to prefer ICE-CREAM...

But all three are quite acceptable.
----------------------------------------------------------

Pogue Hogg stupidly replied:

> Unlike "barbeque", which the OED doesn't list at all among the
> recorded spellings of "barbecue".
>
Hilarious!

Pogue Hogg thinks _BARBEQUE_ unlike the three spellings of ICE CREAM,
ICE-CREAM and ICECREAM is NOT quite acceptable, as I stated, because he
can't find it in the OED.

Hilarious! How Stupid He Is.

Black The Red has a perfect right to spell it that way.

The OED is often quite inadequate when it comes to American spellings and
Americanisms -- and _BARBECUE_, _BARBEQUE_ and other spellings derive from
the AMERICAN Spanish _BARBACOA_ , a framework for supporting meat [as in
Pogue Hogg twisting on the barbeque spit as he is now] over a fire, probably
from Taino, the language of the Taino, an aboriginal Arawakan people of the
Greater Antilles and the Bahamas.

Pogue Hogg, no doubt steeped in drink and "recreational drugs", continues to
twist slowly on the barbeque spit.

I'll pour some red wine over him very carefully to give him some flavor and
let him sip a bit to quench his thirst -- momentarily -- for he is soon to
be fed to the Taino.

Victoria, it just doesn't get any better than this.

Enjoy!

How Sweet It Is!

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Vires et Honor

Exitus Acta Probat

Veni, Vidi, Calcitravi Asinum

==============================================================================
TOPIC: List of places where Gun Control works:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.military.naval/browse_thread/thread/87d8b09fef940959?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 8 2008 7:58 am
From: !Jones

On Tue, 08 Apr 2008 04:48:42 -0700, in alt.war.vietnam "Dr. James
West, Ph.D." <nada@nobull.com> wrote:

>List of places where Gun Control works:

I suppose you'd have to define the term "works". I know of no
scientific study that shows gun control, or the lack thereof, makes a
shred of difference in the overall crime rate.

Now, it does correlate; however, crime rates have always been
cyclical; they ebb and flow like the tide. When the rate is low,
societies don't change gun laws; as they climb, people want to *do*
something, thus they modify the laws WRT weapons, either banning them
or enacting CCW. Whichever they do, the rate subsequently drops.
They may as well have passed a law at high tide requiring it to
recede... and, when it does so, cite that law as effective.

My point is that the crime rates drive gun laws, not visa versa.

Jones

==============================================================================
TOPIC: gun goofballs cannot carry shotgun at U.S. Capitol... Re: ...carrying a
handgun
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.military.naval/browse_thread/thread/b66669d2bc648214?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 8 2008 8:12 am
From: Tiger

Dr. James West, Ph.D. wrote:
>
> Scout wrote:
>
>>
>> Oh, then you can show me where criminals don't have guns because the
>> law prohibits it.
>
>
> Easy. No one, including you law-abiding gun goofballs, can carry shotguns
> onto U.S. Capitol grounds. Because gun control works, son.
>
>
>> otherwise the point stands that gun control does not prevent violent
>> criminals from getting guns and using them in crime.
>
>
> Wrong, son, gun control works for the U.S. Capitol.
>
> ya fuckin gun goofball moron
> ;-)

Would you mind not cross posting off topic stuff............

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 8 2008 8:33 am
From: The.Sargon@gmail.com

On Apr 6, 3:47 pm, "Dr. James West, Ph.D." <n...@nobull.com> wrote:
> Jim Bianchi wrote:
> > On Sun, 06 Apr 2008 09:07:44 -0700, Dr. James West, Ph.D. wrote:
>
> >>Yep. Thanks for the info. I see your point. It is that we should all be
> >>able to carry shotguns wherever we go if we feel we need protection,
> >>right?
>
> >>Say to a GW Bush rally...we should all be able to take shotguns with us, right?
>
> > To the man on the street, 'guncontrol' implies something more than
> > being able to take a shotgun to a Bush rally. As I've told you before, the
> > commonly accepted implication is the theft of my rifles, pistols, and/or
> > shotguns under color of law based on an exceedingly braindead idea that if
> > this is done, somehow the use of these devices by the criminal element will
> > somehow be curtailed.
>
> Son, my response was to PLMerite, not you. You dishonestly snipped important stuff.
>
> You are unable to address the point of you wanting the "right" to carry
> a shotgun wherever you want...wherever you feel you might be threatened, including
> a GW Bush rally or inside the U.S. Capitol.
>
> You are extremists goofballs who see no middle ground. i.e. you are the fringe.

Yeah, goof balls like Samuel Adams:

"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of
the
United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
Samuel Adams, During the Massachusetts U.S. Constitution ratification
convention, 1788

Or Thomas Jefferson:

No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest
reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as
a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
-Thomas Jefferson, Proposed Virginia Constitution, 1776, Jefferson
Papers 344

Or perhaps this one is more your speed; seems that way from reading
your posts:

Cause the registration of all firearms on some pretext, with the view
of confiscating them and leaving the population defenseless. --
Vladimir Ilich Lenin

==============================================================================
TOPIC: China enhances fleet of modern submarines;
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.military.naval/browse_thread/thread/428aee8b897316d8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 8 2008 8:25 am
From: "Jeffrey Hamilton"

"PaPaPeng" <PaPaPeng@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:k6cjv396udlnbd8288qns2bp1lt5v47t02@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 6 Apr 2008 23:06:34 -0400, "Jeffrey Hamilton"
> <bberesford@cogeco.ca> wrote:
>
>>
>>"PaPaPeng" <PaPaPeng@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>news:neshv3p5iuvtf24vdj330qqnihfg5r4a2g@4ax.com...
>>> On Sun, 6 Apr 2008 11:21:42 +0100, "William Black"
>>> <william.black@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Jeffrey Hamilton" <bberesford@cogeco.ca> wrote in message
>>>>news:av_Jj.46815$dA2.40168@read2.cgocable.net...
>>>>
>>>>> eckshully, PaPaPeng is a *communist dupe* I believe.
>>>>> I haven't quite figured out where this Ocean fellow is coming from
>>>>> yet.
>>>>> So
>>>>> I'll read a few more of his post's before I decide if the *killfile*
>>>>> is
>>>>> necessary.
>>>
>>> Jeff. You don't have to agree with me on anything.
>>
>>Agreed. You certainly got that part right.
>>
>>>But if you read
>>> my stuff there will be enough facts that will gnaw at your ability to
>>> maintain a pure as driven snow attitude on war with China or any other
>>> country. That's good enough. You are cannon fodder and don't need to
>>> think much.
>>
>>Read some more history PaPaPeng.
>>Canadians are never cannon fodder, as a matter of fact they have a
>>tendency
>>to turn the other guys troops into cannon fodder. They have done this with
>>great regularity throughout their history.
>>Check out what they did to the Chinese troops in Korea.
>>That is what you call cannon fodder.
>>
>> cheers...Jeff
>>
> Yep. The PLA didn't have many heavy weapons or advanced arms then.
> They had to fight with the tools they had and indeed the casualties
> were extremely high. But they stopped the mighty US war machine on
> its tracks and kept the UN-US forces below the 38th Parallel.

Using overwhelming numbers the Chines did inflict a serious blow when her
*volunteers* entered the fray, however a couple of Canadian regiments along
with an Australian force and some U.S forces held their ground and stopped
the Chines in their tracks. This of course bought the necessary time to
regroup.

Don't forget the Canadians were used to beating the *best* troops the enemy
had to offer, troops who had comparable weapons training and motivation.

Only a fool would underestimate Canada because of her size.

>Having
> the DPRK as the buffer since 1953 is easily worth more than a 100 PLA
> divisions on the ground.

Yes I dare say it was all worth it for China, such a lovely country North
Korea and such a charming regime the Chinese left in power. Still
flourishing to this day, when they're not starving to death..

>It kept the US from directly interfering on
> Chinese soil when China was militarily weak.

It appears to me it kept US troops in South Korea, just a hop, skip and a
jump from Chinese soil and guaranteed a serious spanking if North Korea ever
again went *tilt*.
That's the message I got from it.

>The lesson learned is
> not to refight the last war. The lesson learned is that China must
> develop its military capabilities so that it need not take such
> casualties to fight the next war. I believe you will agree China has
> already achieved this happy state of affairs.
>

I have no idea of the overall quality of Chinese troops, who have they
fought since Korea and how did they do?

> As for the fighting spirit of Canadians Canada does indeed have some
> of the best soldiers in the world. The fact remains Canadian armed
> forces have no ability to decide anything in a general war in any
> foreign land.

Yet again you are so wrong, look up Vimy Ridge. The fact is Canada's forces
are very capable of changing everything. That battle broke the stalemate on
the western front and started the end of WWI. When the U.S. entered, that
was the straw that broke the camel's back.

> My arguments in this newsgroup defaults to the fighting
> abilities of US military forces who do and who are indeed the only
> force that keeps real shooting wars going in the world.
>

The U.S. definately gets involved when she believes her interests are
threatened. The Chinese would do well to keep that in mind.

> Now before you jump in again to defend the US do read the latest Tom
> Dispatch
>

It's not so much a case of me defending the US, PaPaPeng, it's more a case
of I read your happy missives about the wonders of Chinese communism,
tempered for me by the fact of historical realism as to what communist China
has done since WWII.

It is not a free and open society. That, is anathema to Western society. So
you see it's not about *us* changing, it's when will communist China change.

What it comes down too is, we aren't drinking the same *kool-aid* you are.

>http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/174915/ira_chernus_the_general_and_the_trap
> as to where the US armed forces are in the scheme of >things.

I have read some of the web page you posted, I will study it some more and
comment if applicable.

cheers......Jeff

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 8 2008 8:39 am
From: PaPaPeng

On Tue, 8 Apr 2008 02:52:55 -0500, "Ray O'Hara"
<mary.palmucci@rcn.com> wrote:

>
>"PaPaPeng" <PaPaPeng@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:mtggv316he21l5ktpffqd0vol239pst7r7@4ax.com...
>>
>> China is essentially self sufficient in most materials and in food.
>> As for energy China has opted to import foreign oil and gas while
>> these are available to China under current favorable terms. China has
>> more than enough foreign exchange which must be spent somehow lest
>> that hoard overwhelms China's economy. As it is the dollar hoard is
>> already distorting China's relationships with the rest of the world.
>>
>> On energy security the USN is incapable of blockading supplies from
>> Central Asia, Russia and from Burma. It will also be interesting as
>> to how the US intends to deal with energy exporters who will want to
>> ship to China. Will the US have to declare war on those exporters
>> too? In a pinch China has domestic sources she can ramp up production
>> on. The current level of imports has more to do with drawing down the
>> USD hoard than a unachievable for self sufficiency.
>>
>of course china is also incapable of moving resources through burma and
>russia or central asia.
>there is the problem of infrustructure.
>
>funny how a few posta ago you were going on about how impossible movement by
>armies through those areas were and now you have the chinese moving masses
>of material through the same regions.
>
In no particular order.

Article 1: India gets on board the Trans-Asian Railway
By Raja M
March 21, 2007
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/IC21Df01.html

Getting from Singapore to Scotland by train will soon be possible now
that India has hopped aboard the Trans-Asian Railway (TAR) project.

In a big boost to the 81,000-kilometer intercontinental rail link,
India on March 8 ratified an intergovernmental agreement on the
railway network connecting 32 Asian countries to Europe. With missing
rail links to be built to connect existing and upgraded rail networks,
the entire TAR project is expected to be complete by 2015.

As one of the most economically and culturally important transport
links in modern history, the TAR project will connect India with China
in the east and Europe in the west.

"The intergovernmental agreement will formalize the coordinated
development of Trans-Asian Railways," said Priya Ranjandas Dasmunsi,
India's minister for parliamentary affairs. "This will help the
movement of rail traffic, and the improvement of trade and tourism
among Asian countries."

Eighteen countries, including Cambodia, China, India, Indonesia, Iran,
Kazakhstan, Mongolia, Nepal, South Korea, Russia, Sri Lanka,
Tajikistan, Thailand, Turkey, Uzbekistan and Vietnam, have signed the
agreement. The Intergovernmental Agreement on the Trans-Asian Railway
was signed last November 10 during the Ministerial Conference on
Transport in Busan, South Korea, bringing the operational reality of
the TAR closer.

For its part in the TAR project, Indian Railways is expected to begin
constructing a 350km link between Jiribam in northeastern India to
Moreh in Myanmar, with that country's impoverished military regime
sharing part of the estimated US$678 million bill. India's North East
Frontier (NEF) Railway is likely to construct this link through some
of the toughest terrain in South Asia.

"No date has been fixed yet to start the work, as the Home and Defense
ministries have to work out the exact modalities," T K Rabha, a senior
official of NEF Railways, told Asia Times Online from the railway's
headquarters in Guwahati, capital of the northeastern state of Assam.
"Awareness of the Trans-Asian Railway is moderate in this region, and
those who are aware of it are excited about its enormous potential."

Besides boosting trade, the proposed India-Myanmar rail link could
take travelers nearer to famous South Asian World War II landmarks
such as Stilwell Road, named after US General Joseph Warren Stilwell
(1883-1946), the commanding general of the Allied armies of China,
Burma and India, who built the 1,800km road connecting northeastern
India to China's Yunnan province through what is now Myanmar, to
enable his forces to enter China from India to counter the Japanese.

Interestingly, a visiting Chinese trade delegation asked India to
reopen the spectacular Stilwell Road, called Tea Horse Road in China,
to facilitate trade between the two nations through the historic
route. The proposed Trans-Asian rail link through the region could do
just that.

The United Nations Economic and Social Commission for Asia and the
Pacific (UNESCAP) supports the TAR network, which was started in the
1960s to initially provide a 14,000km unbroken rail line between
Singapore and Istanbul that, when complete, would become the world's
longest train link, overtaking the 9,288km Trans-Siberian rail journey
from Moscow to Vladivostok, with 87 cities in between.

The TAR is one of the "three pillars", as the UN calls it, of the
Asian Land Transport Infrastructure Development project, endorsed by
the UNESCAP Commission at its 48th session in 1992, along with the
141,000km Trans-Asian Highway and facilitation of regional land
transport projects.

The Trans-Asian Railway is expected to boost trade, providing
much-needed quicker, easier movement of freight. The impetus of Asian
trade, growing at an average of 13% annually, compared with 9% in the
rest of the world, will accelerate completion of the missing links.
Besides, railways are being increasingly accepted as a better
freight-movement option than polluting road transport, pirate-infested
seas and inadequate port facilities.

UNESCAP says its longer-term hopes are of developing joint border
stations, with TAR-corridor-based organizations authorized to act on
behalf of their constitutive national railways to promote and
facilitate trade among neighboring countries. Long-term, the
trans-Asian transportation projects could sow the seeds of a much
closer and much needed pan-Asian identity along the lines of the
European Union.

In the interim, building the missing links of the transportation
networks will also develop local regions. For instance, the new
Indo-Myanmar link of the TAR will bring trains running for the first
time through more parts of India's remote and economically backward
northeastern region.

The TAR will connect Asian capital cities, link major industrial and
agricultural centers, connect air, sea and river ports and, above all,
offer significant tourism benefits.

The variety of train journeys that would be available are a traveler's
dream. One memorable ride could connect Bangkok to Moscow, via Laos
and China.

This link will connect Singapore to the Chinese city of Kunming,
running through Malaysia, Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos and
Myanmar. The 8,135km line will use upgraded existing lines, as well as
new rail lines built between these nations, at an estimated cost of
$2.5 billion.

Another trans-Asian rail journey could start from the Indonesian
island of Java or Sumatra, with a railway-ferry link to Singapore,
then to Thailand, remote regions of Myanmar, Bangladesh, across
India's Gangetic Plains, to Pakistan, Iran, Turkey and on to Europe
via the Middle East.

With India now on board, China is already enthusiastically supporting
the TAR. China will help speed up construction of its section of the
Kunming-Singapore rail link, and will also work with Thailand and
Cambodia to build the Poipet-Sisophon line. According to Sokhom
Pheakavanmony, director general of Royal Railways of Cambodia, the
rail link between Poipet and Sisophon will be complete by the end of
2007 or early 2008.

With already established rail links between countries falling into
disuse, such as the one between Thailand and Cambodia, consistent link
maintenance is one of the challenges facing the TAR.

Other logistical challenges include differing railway gauges (Asian
nations use five different track gauges, meaning trains cannot
automatically chug down the whole route) and varying customs and
security formalities.

Yet given the growing thrust of economic and tourism forces, we could
soon have a delicious Japanese lunch at Wasabi Bistro in the Oriental
Hotel in Singapore, then go to the railway station and take the train
to the Royal Ettrick Hotel in Edinburgh, Scotland.

Article 2. China Business
Dec 20, 2005

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China_Business/GL20Cb02.html

China's roads ahead

BEIJING - The Ministry of Communications has mapped out a blueprint
for the development of highways, coastal ports and inland waterway
shipping in major regions, intended to guide the development of the
country's transportation infrastructure until 2020.

The blueprint covers such plans as the high-grade shipping network in
the Pearl River Delta, a highway and waterway shipping development
plan for the old industrial base of northeast China, a highway
modernization plan, a waterway communication plan for the Yangtze
River Delta, a high-grade shipping network plan for the Yangtze Delta,
and an inland river shipping development plan for western China.

Sixteen shipping channels are planned by 2020, totaling 939 kilometers
in the Pearl River Delta. By 2020, five channels for over 3,000-ton
oceangoing ships, six channels for 1,000-ton grade oceangoing ships
and four inland shipping channels will be formed. These projects will
cost an estimated 4.2 billion yuan (US$520 million).

Highway mileage in northeast China should reach 190,000 kilometers by
2010; the regional expressway mileage will be 5,500 kilometers; all
counties will be serviced by second-grade highways and 90% of trunk
highways will be at least second grade; the comprehensive capacity of
coastal ports will be 400 million tons; the container throughput of
coastal ports will hit 10 million 20-foot equivalent units (TEUs); the
shipping channels above the third grade will be 1,980 kilometers long;
the number of inland ports will be 252; and the throughput capacity of
all ports will be 22 million tons.

By 2020, total highway mileage will be 240,000 kilometers; the
regional expressway mileage will exceed 9,000 kilometers; the
comprehensive throughput capacity of the coastal ports will hit 750
million tons; the container throughput of coastal ports will reach 27
million TEUs; and mileage of shipping channels improved to grade three
or above will reach 2,830 kilometers.

The total size of the highway network, including expressways, ordinary
trunk line highways and rural roads, is expected to reach 300,000
kilometers by 2020, of which 12,000 kilometers will be expressways.
Although the ministry had stated in recent months that foreign
investment in roads would be allowed, particularly in rural areas,
officials did not refer to foreign investment in the recent
announcement.

Waterway plans
Meanwhile, a high-grade shipping channel network including 23 channels
in the Yangtze River region and the Beijing to Hangzhou Grand Canal
will be built. The total mileage of channels planned by 2020 totals
4,200 kilometers, equivalent to 33% of the current mileage, including
3,400 kilometers above the third grade and 800 kilometers of fourth
grade; seven state-class comprehensive transport hubs will be built in
Shanghai, Nanjing, Hangzhou, Ningbo, Wenzhou, Xuzhou and Lianyungang,
of which Shanghai, Nanjing, Ningbo, Wuzhou and Lianyungang will become
international ones and Hangzhou and Xuzhou will become the inland
comprehensive transport hubs.

The infrastructure of trunk lines in the Yangtze River and the Xijiang
River will be strengthened, and the construction of shipping projects
in the Jialingjiang, Hanjiang, Youjiang, Liujiang, Qingjiang,
Beipanjiang and Hongshuihe rivers will be speeded up. In addition,
five inland river ports - Yibin, Chongqing, Nanning, Guigang and
Wuzhou - will be built; and the shipping channels connecting major
branches and major regional ports will be developed further.

By 2010, 3,700 kilometers of shipping channels will have been
improved, including 76 kilometers of grade-three shipping channel, 695
kilometers of grade-four channels, and 2,000 kilometers of grade-five
channels. Also, 175 berths in inland ports will be built with a
combined handling capacity of 22.6 million tons.

By 2020, a waterway connecting the river system in western China with
the sea will be built. Some 3,300 kilometers of shipping channels will
be improved in the region, including 745 kilometers of grade-three
channels, 1,900 kilometers of grade-four channels, and 110 kilometers
of grade-five channels. Lastly, 70 new cargo berths will be built in
the region with a newly-increased handling capacity of nine million
tons.

(Asia Pulse/XIC)

Article 3. China and Myanmar
Our friends in the north
Feb 7th 2008
http://www.economist.com/world/asia/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10653874
KYAUKPHYU
From The Economist print edition
Shunned by the West, Myanmar is developing ever closer commercial
links with its neighbours, especially China

MOST locals, who are lucky if they enjoy two hours of electricity an
evening, are unaware of their region's bounty: South-East Asia's
biggest proven gas reserve lies in the Shwe field, just off the coast
of Ramree Island. This year work will begin on a pipeline to carry
these riches to China. From perhaps as early as late 2009, a parallel
pipe will carry Middle Eastern and African oil from a new deep-water
harbour at Kyaukphyu, bypassing the Strait of Malacca and fuelling the
economy of China's south-west.
The site of the harbour, like the former fishing grounds where the gas
lies, is now strictly out of bounds to locals. Despite a small poster
campaign by underground activists, few people here know much about it.
Those who do are worried. According to one, farmers fear losing their
land. They have good reason for concern, judging from the mass
dispossessions and human-rights abuses that surrounded the
construction of earlier pipelines from the south to Thailand.
Residents of nearby Baday Island have already been told that they must
leave.
China is not the only country in the region nervous about its "energy
security" and thus hungry for Myanmar's energy resources. India also
hoped to buy the Shwe ("golden") gas, offering the government soft
loans and other inducements. In August India signed a $150m contract
for gas exploration further south in the Gulf of Martaban. One day
India hopes to build its own pipeline into its poor, remote,
insurgency-ridden north-eastern states.
Until the Shwe gas comes on stream, Myanmar's biggest export market
will remain Thailand. In purchases worth $2 billion a year, Thailand's
electricity authority imports gas from the Yadana and Yetagun fields.
But China offers the Burmese junta particular advantages. As a
permanent member of the United Nations Security Council, it can veto
threatening resolutions, as it did a year ago (just three days before
it secured exploration rights to three more offshore blocks near
Ramree).
There are even reports that Myanmar may soon start conducting all its
Chinese trade in the Chinese currency, the yuan. This sounds odd,
since it is not fully convertible and Myanmar expects soon to have a
large trade surplus. The rationale would be to avoid Western banking
sanctions. American measures introduced after the crushing of monk-led
protests last September hurt Burmese financial interests in Singapore.
This week, America tightened sanctions on the ruling junta's families.
Chinese trade extends beyond energy. The new pipelines will follow the
route of the old British-built Burma Road, which still carries timber,
gold, gemstones and other Burmese raw materials north to China and
brings in cheap manufactures. Around 20 Chinese companies are working
in Myanmar on scores of projects including hydropower, mining and
road-building as well as oil and gas. Ruili, the main border-crossing
between northern Myanmar and China's province of Yunnan, has become a
seedy boomtown.
Under construction, and soon to eclipse the Burma Road is a new
"Southern Silk Road", linking India to China across northern Myanmar.
Parts of the long-derelict route were first opened by the Allies
during the second world war to supply Chiang Kai-shek's Chinese army
in its war with the Japanese. Today it gels neatly both with India's
determination to develop the north-east and with China's plans to
close the gap between its booming east coast and the laggardly western
interior. Yunnan needs energy supplies and markets, and its businesses
and officials are little bothered by the human-rights concerns that
have led some Western governments to impose limited sanctions.

Article 4.
The geopolitical stakes of 'Saffron Revolution'
By F William Engdahl
October 17, 2007
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/IJ17Ae01.html

There are facts and then there are facts. Take the case of the recent
mass protests in Burma or Myanmar, depending on which name you prefer
to call the former British colony.

First it's a fact which few will argue that the present military
dictatorship of the reclusive General Than Shwe is right up there when
it comes to world-class tyrannies. It's also a fact that Myanmar
enjoys one of the world's lowest general living standards. Partly as a
result of the ill-conceived 100% to 500% price hikes in gasoline and
other fuels in August, inflation, the nominal trigger for the mass
protests led by saffron-robed Buddhist monks, is unofficially
estimated to have risen by 35%. Ironically the demand to establish
"market" energy prices came from the IMF and World Bank.

The UN estimates that the population of some 50 million inhabitants
spend up to 70% of their monthly income on food alone. The recent fuel
price hike makes matters unbearable for tens of millions.

Myanmar is also deeply involved in the world narcotics trade, ranking
only behind Hamid Karzai's Afghanistan as a source for heroin. As
well, it is said to be Southeast Asia's largest producer of
methamphetamines.

This is all understandable powder to unleash a social explosion of
protest against the regime.

It is also a fact that the Myanmar military junta is on the hit list
of US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and the Bush administration
for its repressive ways. Has the Bush leopard suddenly changed his
spots? Or is there a more opaque agenda behind Washington's calls to
impose severe economic and political sanctions on the regime? Here
some not-so-publicized facts help.

Behind the recent CNN news pictures of streams of monks marching in
the streets of the former capital city, Yangon, calling for more
democracy, is a battle of major geopolitical consequence.

The major actors
The tragedy of Myanmar, whose land area is about the size of George W
Bush's Texas, is that its population is being used as a human stage
prop in a drama scripted in Washington by the National Endowment for
Democracy (NED), the George Soros Open Society Institute, Freedom
House and Gene Sharp's Albert Einstein Institution, a US intelligence
asset used to spark "non-violent" regime change around the world on
behalf of the US strategic agenda.

Myanmar's "Saffron Revolution", like the Ukraine "Orange Revolution"
or the Georgia "Rose Revolution" and the various color revolutions
instigated in recent years against strategic states surrounding
Russia, is a well-orchestrated exercise in Washington-run regime
change, down to the details of "hit-and-run" protests with "swarming"
mobs of monks in saffron, Internet blogs, mobile SMS links between
protest groups, well-organized protest cells which disperse and
re-form. CNN made the blunder during a September broadcast of
mentioning the active presence of the NED behind the protests in
Myanmar.

In fact the US State Department admits to supporting the activities of
the NED in Myanmar. The NED is a US government-funded "private" entity
whose activities are designed to support US foreign policy objectives,
doing today what the CIA did during the Cold War. As well, the NED
funds Soros' Open Society Institute in fostering regime change in
Myanmar. In an October 30, 2003 press release the State Department
admitted, "The United States also supports organizations such as the
National Endowment for Democracy, the Open Society Institute and
Internews, working inside and outside the region on a broad range of
democracy promotion activities." It all sounds very self-effacing and
noble of the State Department. Is it though?

In reality the US State Department has recruited and trained key
opposition leaders from numerous anti-government organizations in
Myanmar. It has poured the relatively huge sum (for Myanmar) of more
than $2.5 million annually into NED activities in promoting regime
change in Myanmar since at least 2003. The US regime change effort,
its Saffron Revolution, is being largely run, according to informed
reports, out of the US Consulate General in bordering Chaing Mai,
Thailand. There activists are recruited and trained, in some cases
directly in the US, before being sent back to organize inside Myanmar.
The US's NED admits to funding key opposition media including the New
Era Journal, Irrawaddy and the Democratic Voice of Burma radio.

The concert-master of the tactics of Saffron monk-led non-violence
regime change is Gene Sharp, founder of the deceptively-named Albert
Einstein Institution in Cambridge, Massachusetts, a group funded by an
arm of the NED to foster US-friendly regime change in key spots around
the world. Sharp's institute has been active in Myanmar since 1989,
just after the regime massacred some 3,000 protestors to silence the
opposition. CIA special operative and former US military attache in
Rangoon, Col Robert Helvey, an expert in clandestine operations,
introduced Sharp to Myanmar in 1989 to train the opposition there in
non-violent strategy. Interestingly, Sharp was also in China two weeks
before the dramatic events at Tiananmen Square.

Why Myanmar now?
A relevant question is why the US government has such a keen interest
in fostering regime change in Myanmar at this juncture. We can dismiss
rather quickly the idea that it has genuine concern for democracy,
justice, human rights for the oppressed population there. Iraq and
Afghanistan are sufficient testimony to the fact Washington's paean to
democacy is propaganda cover for another agenda.

The question is, what would lead to such engagement in such a remote
place as Myanmar?

Geopolitical control seems to be the answer - control ultimately of
the strategic sea lanes from the Persian Gulf to the South China Sea.
The coastline of Myanmar provides naval access in the proximity of one
of the world's most strategic water passages, the Strait of Malacca,
the narrow ship passage between Malaysia and Indonesia.

The Pentagon has been trying to militarize the region since September
11, 2001 on the argument of defending against possible terrorist
attack. The US has managed to gain an airbase on Banda Aceh, the
Sultan Iskandar Muda Air Force Base, on the northernmost tip of
Indonesia. The governments of the region, including Myanmar, however,
have adamantly refused US efforts to militarize the region. A glance
at a map (click here) will confirm the strategic importance of
Myanmar.

The Strait of Malacca, linking the Indian and Pacific Oceans, is the
shortest sea route between the Persian Gulf and China. It is the key
chokepoint in Asia. More than 80% of all China's oil imports are
shipped by tankers passing the Malacca Strait. The narrowest point is
the Phillips Channel in the Singapore Strait, only 1.5 miles wide at
its narrowest. Each day, more than 12 million barrels in oil
supertankers pass through this narrow passage, most en route to the
world's fastest-growing energy market, China, or to Japan.

If the strait were closed, nearly half of the world's tanker fleet
would be required to sail further. Closure would immediately raise
freight rates worldwide. More than 50,000 vessels per year transit the
Strait of Malacca. The region from Maynmar to Banda Aceh in Indonesia
is fast becoming one of the world's most strategic chokepoints. Who
controls those waters controls China's energy supplies.

That strategic importance of Myanmar has not been lost on Beijing.

Since it became clear to China that the US was hell-bent on a
unilateral militarization of the Middle East oil fields in 2003,
Beijing has stepped up its engagement in Myanmar. Chinese energy and
military security, not human rights concerns, drives their policy.

In recent years Beijing has poured billions of dollars in military
assistance into Myanmar, including fighter, ground-attack and
transport aircraft; tanks and armored personnel carriers; naval
vessels and surface-to-air missiles. China has built up Myanmar
railroads and roads and won permission to station its troops in
Myanmar. China, according to Indian defense sources, has also built a
large electronic surveillance facility on Myanmar's Coco Islands and
is building naval bases for access to the Indian Ocean.

In fact Myanmar is an integral part of what China terms its "string of
pearls", its strategic design of establishing military bases in
Myanmar, Thailand and Cambodia in order to counter US control over the
Strait of Malacca chokepoint. There is also energy on and offshore of
Myanmar, and lots of it.

The gas fields of Myanmar
Oil and gas have been produced in Myanmar since the British set up the
Rangoon Oil Company in 1871, later renamed Burmah Oil Co. The country
has produced natural gas since the 1970s, and in the 1990s it granted
gas concessions to the foreign companies ElfTotal of France and
Premier Oil of the UK in the Gulf of Martaban. Later Texaco and Unocal
(now Chevron) won concessions at Yadana and Yetagun as well. Yadana
alone has an estimated gas reserve of more than 5 trillion cubic feet
and an expected life of at least 30 years. Yetagun is estimated to
have about a third the gas of the Yadana field.

In 2004 a large new gas field, Shwe field, off the coast of Arakan,
was discovered.

By 2002 both Texaco and Premier Oil withdrew from the Yetagun project
following UK government and non-governmental pressure. Malaysia's
Petronas bought Premier's 27% stake. By 2004 Myanmar was exporting
Yadana gas via pipeline to Thailand, worth $1 billion annually to the
Myanmar regime. In 2005 China, Thailand and South Korea invested in
expanding the Myanmar oil and gas sector, with export of gas to
Thailand rising 50%.

Gas export today is Myanmar's most important source of income. Yadana
was developed jointly by ElfTotal, Unocal, PTT-EP of Thailand and
Myanmar's state MOGE, operated by ElfTotal. Yadana supplies some 20%
of Thai natural gas needs.

Today the Yetagun field is operated by Malaysia's Petronas along with
MOGE, Japan's Nippon Oil and PTT-EP. The gas is piped onshore where it
links to the Yadana pipeline. Gas from the Shwe field is to come on
line in 2009. China and India have been in strong contention over the
Shwe gas field reserves.

India loses, China wins
This past summer Myanmar signed a memorandum of understanding with
PetroChina to supply large volumes of natural gas from reserves of the
Shwe gasfield in the Bay of Bengal. The contract runs for 30 years.
India was the main loser. Myanmar had earlier given India a major
stake in two offshore blocks to develop gas to have been transmitted
via pipeline through Bangladesh to India's energy-hungry economy.
Political bickering between India and Bangladesh brought the Indian
plans to a standstill.

China took advantage of the stalemate. It simply trumped India with an
offer to invest billions in building a strategic China-Myanmar oil and
gas pipeline across Myanmar from Myanmar's deepwater port at Sittwe in
the Bay of Bengal to Kunming in China's Yunnan province, a stretch of
more than 2,300 kilometers. China plans an oil refinery in Kumming as
well.

What the Myanmar-China pipelines will allow is routing of oil and gas
from Africa (Sudan among other sources) and the Middle East (Iran,
Saudi Arabia) without depending on the vulnerable chokepoint of the
Malacca Strait. Myanmar becomes China's "bridge" linking Bangladesh
and countries westward to the China mainland independent of any
possible future moves by Washington to control the strait.

India's dangerous alliance shift
It's no wonder that China is taking such precautions. Ever since the
Bush administration decided in 2005 to recruit India to the Pentagon's
"New Framework for US-India Defense Relations", India has been pushed
into a strategic alliance with Washington in order to counter China in
Asia.

In an October 2002 Pentagon report, "The Indo-US Military
Relationship", the Office of Net Assessments stated the reason for the
defense alliance would be to have a "capable partner" who can take on
"more responsibility for low-end operations" in Asia, provide new
training opportunities and "ultimately provide basing and access for
US power projection". Washington is also quietly negotiating a base on
Indian territory, a severe violation of India's traditional
non-aligned status.

Power projection against whom? China, perhaps?

As well, the Bush administration has offered India a deal to lift its
30-year nuclear sanctions and to sell advanced US nuclear technology,
legitimizing India's open violation of the nuclear Non-Proliferation
Treaty. At the same time Washington accuses Iran of violating same, an
exercise in political hypocrisy to say the least.

Notably, just as the saffron-robed monks of Myanmar took to the
streets, the Pentagon opened US-Indian joint naval exercises, "Malabar
07", along with armed forces from Australia, Japan and Singapore. The
US showed the awesome muscle of its 7th Fleet, deploying the aircraft
carriers USS Nimitz and USS Kitty Hawk, guided missile cruisers USS
Cowpens and USS Princeton, and no less than five guided missile
destroyers.

US-backed regime change in Myanmar together with Washington's growing
military power projection via India and other allies in the region is
clearly a factor in Beijing's policy vis-a-vis Myanmar's present
military junta. As is often the case these days, from Darfur to
Caracas to Yangon, the rallying call of Washington for democracy ought
to be taken with a large grain of salt.

F William Engdahl is the author of A Century of War: Anglo-American
Oil Politics and the New World Order, Pluto Press Ltd. Further
articles can be found at his website, www.engdahl.oilgeopolitics.net.

Article 5. Russia spins global energy spider's web
By W Joseph Stroupe
August 25, 2006
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/HH25Dj01.html

The vast bulk of the world's oil, gas and strategic minerals resources
either is coming under or is already under the control of
authoritarian, or less-than-democratic, or leftist, or otherwise
radical regimes either with a decidedly anti-Western political stance
and ideology or pointedly decreased sensitivities to strategic US
interests.

It is difficult to name more than a handful of resource-rich states
that are liberal democracies and

that are still significantly aligned with the West. Only Canada and
Mexico come immediately to mind, and even Canada is increasingly
embracing China and the East in the sphere of strategic energy deals
and agreements.

Even those resource-rich regimes that are considered to be the most
moderate of the globe's producing states are far less closely aligned
geopolitically with the US than they were previously.

Saudi Arabia, for example, continues its "Look East" policy of
diversifying its markets away from the US. It has concluded a range of
important deals in the energy sector with China and India and is
steadily moving into closer geopolitical alignment with the rising
East.

A number of other key Middle Eastern regimes are following suit. By
and large Latin America is doing the same, as are Africa and Central
Asia. Almost none of the world's oil and gas producers wants to be
inordinately dependent on the US market any longer. Additionally, the
steady rise of the powerful economies of Asia beckons oil and gas
producers toward such lucrative markets that are politically
cost-free, meaning they do not attach political demands and seek to
interfere in the domestic affairs of the producing regimes, as does
the US.

In virtually all cases, the interests of the West and of its
multinational oil companies and big Western financial institutions are
being minimized and/or pushed out as the global trend of
nationalization, by one means or another, of the oil-and-gas sector
picks up speed.

That is occurring in Russia, which has now surpassed Saudi Arabia as
the world's largest exporter of oil, in Central Asia, the Middle East
and in Latin America. Within virtually all such regimes the lines of
separation between the top levels of political leadership and the
directorship of key corporations and industries are not only blurred
but are being obliterated. The multinational oil companies of the West
are being marginalized as a direct result.

That is the case in Russia, where in many key areas of industry
corporate directors are intimately tied to President Vladimir Putin,
having formed a close association with him long before he became
president, and many even hold key positions as upper-level Kremlin
officials, or as government ministers. Not merely coincidentally, the
key corporations the directors of which are so closely allied with
Putin are often resources-based and are also those that are
state-controlled businesses, with the Russian state holding
controlling (51% or more) interests.

To varying yet alarming degrees, the resource-rich regimes around the
globe are copying the Russian model. Resources-based corporate states
with a profound political affinity for one another and a simultaneous
collective disdain and even a hatred for US-led unipolar dominance are
proliferating around the globe.

Resource-rich Russia's mounting global leverage with the world's other
producing states and with the powerhouse economies of the East, and
its profound political affinity with such producers and key consumer
states, far outweighs the influence of the Organization of Petroleum
Exporting Countries (OPEC).

How so? Russia is crossing the membership boundaries of OPEC to court
its most powerful members and to conclude with them joint-venture
agreements of huge consequence and importance for the future of global
oil and gas exploration and production. The West is rapidly being
pushed out of such ventures, or is being forced to take radical
reductions in the size of its stakes, and is being left out entirely
in many new ventures.

Instead, the world's producing regimes are increasingly entering key
joint ventures between themselves and in very close cooperation with
the powerhouse economies of the rising East, such as China. We are
witnessing not merely the formation of some new oil-and-gas cartel
with Russia at its center, but rather the formation of something that
includes both producers and the key consumer states of the East in an
ever more cohesive de facto confederation. This is dedicated to the
achievement of strategic energy security for those within its clearly
defined circle.
In the process, OPEC itself, as an entity, is being undermined and
marginalized. Simultaneously, the West is being forcibly cast from the
proverbial frying pan into the fire as something far more powerful,
compelling and all-encompassing than OPEC is coalescing.

The ominous rise around the globe of the resources-based corporate
state is accelerating. The implications for the West are enormous, yet
such implications are only beginning to be understood. As noted above,
such states are concluding rapidly increased numbers of strategic
agreements among themselves for the joint exploration and production
of oil and gas, and with the rapidly rising powerhouse economies of
the East, such as China and India, for the private long-term supply of
oil and gas.

The creation of such private pools of oil and gas for the consumption
only by specific economic powers in the East and select economies of
the West is also a new development that carries with it profound
implications for the West.

In essence, the circle defining international energy security is now
being drawn. Inside the circle are those producer and consumer states
whose political and geopolitical affinity for each other is the result
of no mere chance occurrence and whose energy-security interests are
being strategically served and addressed on both sides of the
producer/consumer equation.

Some of the economies of the West, such as Germany, are being included
within the developing circle. Outside the circle are those economies
of the West that are to be left out of the growing international
energy-security arrangements currently being constructed, as alluded
to above. Interestingly, and as a profound new development, it isn't
the United States that defines the path and scope of the circle.
Instead, it is Russia and its strategic partners who are defining it.

Because Russia's leaders adroitly positioned the Russian Federation to
capitalize massively on global energy developments, it is the state
that inherited the unique ability to shape global developments as they
unfold. Russia is shaping important developments among the world's key
producing and consuming powers. They are being shaped contrary to the
strategic interests of the United States, as noted above. The US is
also shaping developments, foolishly handing Russia and the East ever
more global leverage. By incessant strategic blunders, the US has
isolated itself internationally and fanned the fires of global
anti-Americanism, which increasingly engulf the very regions where its
own resources-based strategic interests lie.

An entire array of fundamental global developments as respect
strategic resources is quite literally changing the landscape of the
traditional global energy order. With regard to energy and energy
security, a new global order is emerging. The US-backed liberal, open
global oil market order is beset by an accelerating proliferation of
private, state-to-state long-term agreements and contracts concluded
within the circle Russia and its partners are defining.

This is creating increasing numbers of private pools of oil and gas
dedicated only to serving the energy-security interests of the circle
of private participants. Along the way, Russia's export monopoly of
the oil and gas that still flows outside the circle to the West
continues to grow, further ensuring its mounting global leverage.

Rather than being merely unrelated and random events, global
developments in the energy and geopolitical spheres over the past
seven years form a distinct pattern that bespeaks the execution of a
developing strategy of a Russian reacquisition of global power, but in
concert with its strategic partners, at the incalculable expense of
the West in general and of the US in particular.

Contrary to the assumptions of conventional wisdom, the US hasn't any
longer the global leverage to shape unfolding developments in its
favor. Russia is rapidly acquiring such leverage, and it is expertly
plying that leverage against US vulnerabilities in the energy sphere.

W Joseph Stroupe is editor of Global Events Magazine online at
www.GeoStrategyMap.com. He has authored a new book on the implications
of ongoing energy geopolitics titled Russian Rubicon - Impending
Checkmate of the West.

Article 7
China to add 25,000 kilometers of oil and gas pipelines by 2010
February 23, 2007
http://english.people.com.cn/200702/23/eng20070223_351994.html
China plans to build another 25,000 kilometers of oil and gas
pipelines by 2010 to support economic development, said the China
Petroleum Pipeline Bureau (CPPLB).
The length of the country's oil and gas pipelines totals 40,000
kilometers at present, said Su Shifeng, director of the CPPLB, which
is a leading enterprise in the country's oil and gas pipeline
transportation industry.
The CPPLB recorded 420 million yuan (52.5 million U.S. dollars) of
profits last year, 82.6 percent up from 2005, according to the
company.
It raked in 8.4 billion yuan of revenues and turned in 395 million
yuan of taxes last year.
The CPPLB undertakes the construction of more than 80 percent of
China's oil and gas pipelines and over 75 percent of the country's
crude oil storage tanks.
Source: Xinhua

Article 8.
US outflanked in Eurasia energy politics
By F William Engdahl

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/HF10Dj01.html

The United States' global energy-control strategy, it's now clear to
most, was the actual reason for the highly costly regime change in
Iraq, euphemistically dubbed "democracy" by Washington. But while it
is preoccupied with implanting democracy in the Middle East, the
United States is quietly being outflanked in the rush to secure and
control major energy sources of the Persian Gulf, the Central Asian
Caspian Basin, Africa and beyond.

The quest for energy control has informed Washington's support for
high-risk "color revolutions" in Georgia, Ukraine, Uzbekistan, Belarus
and Kyrgyzstan in recent months. It lies behind US activity in West
Africa, as well as in Sudan, source of 7% of China's oil imports. It
lies behind US policy vis-a-vis President Hugo Chavez' Venezuela and
President Evo Morales' Bolivia.

In recent months, however, this strategy of global energy dominance
has shown signs of producing just the opposite: a kind of "coalition
of the unwilling", states that increasingly see no other prospect,
despite traditional animosities, but to cooperate to oppose what they
see as a US push to control the future security of their energy.

If the trend of recent events continues, it won't be US-style
democracy that is spreading, but rather Russian and Chinese influence
over major oil and gas supplies.

Some in Washington are beginning to realize that important figures
might have been too clumsy in recent public statements about both
China and Russia, two nations whose cooperation in some form is
essential to the success of the global US energy project.

Ripping into China and Russia
Contrary to advice from older China hands, including former secretary
of state Henry Kissinger, architect of president Richard Nixon's 1972
opening to China, the White House denied visiting Chinese President Hu
Jintao the honor of a full state dinner when he visited in April,
serving instead a short "state lunch". Hu was publicly humiliated by a
well-known Falungong heckler at the White House press conference.

A few weeks later, Vice President Dick Cheney slapped Russian
President Vladimir Putin with the most open attack on Russia's
internal human-rights policy as well as its energy policy in a speech
in the Baltic state of Lithuania. There, Cheney declared of Russia,
"The government has unfairly and improperly restricted the rights of
her people." He accused Russia of energy "intimidation and blackmail".
Some days later, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice reiterated that
Russia should be "pressed" on democratic reforms. Rice also slapped
China in the face in March during a trip to Southeast Asia, calling
China a "negative force" in Asia.

Curiously, Washington has repeatedly accused China of "not playing by
the rules", in terms of its oil politics, declaring that China is
guilty of "seeking to control energy at the source", as though that
had not been US energy policy for the past century.

The significance of taking aim simultaneously at both Russia and
China, the two Eurasian giants, the one the largest investor in US
Treasury bonds, the other the world's second-most-developed military
nuclear power, reflects the realization in Washington that all may not
be as seamless in the quest for global domination as originally
promised by various strategists in and around the administration of
President George W Bush.

Next Thursday, member nations of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization
(SCO), led by China and Russia, will reportedly invite Iran, currently
an observer, into full membership. Even if full membership is
postponed, as has been mooted, the fact remains that Russia and China
both want to seal closer cooperation with Iran in Eurasian energy
cooperation.

The SCO was founded in June 2001 by China, Russia, Kazakhstan,
Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan. Its stated goal was to
facilitate "cooperation in political affairs, economy and trade,
scientific-technical, cultural, and educational spheres as well as in
energy, transportation, tourism, and environment protection fields".
Recently, however, the SCO is beginning to look like an
energy-financial bloc in Central Asia consciously being developed to
serve as a counter-pole to US hegemony.

Russia's energy geopolitics
In recent months SCO members have taken several potentially strategic
steps to distance themselves from energy and monetary dependence on
the US. In his recent State of the Union speech, President Putin
announced that Russia is planning to make the ruble convertible into
other major currencies and to use it in its oil and gas transactions.

A convertible ruble is to be introduced, according to latest Russian
statements, on July 1, six months earlier than originally planned.
Russia also has stated it plans to shift a share of its now
considerable dollar reserves away from the US currency and that it
will use 40 billion US dollars to purchase gold reserves.

Russia's state-owned natural-gas transport company, Transneft, has
consolidated its pipeline control to become the sole exporter of
Russian natural gas. Russia has by far the world's largest natural-gas
reserves and Iran the second-largest. With Iran inside, the SCO would
control the vast majority of the world's natural-gas reserves, as well
as a significant portion of its oil reserves, not to mention the
Strait of Hormuz, the narrow corridor for a majority of Persian Gulf
oil-tanker shipment to Japan and the West.

Late last month Russia and Algeria, the two largest gas suppliers to
Europe, agreed to increase energy cooperation. Algeria has given
Russian companies exclusive access to Algerian oil and gas fields, and
Gazprom and Sonatrach will cooperate in delivery to France. Putin has
canceled Algeria's US$4.7 billion debt to Russia and, for its part,
Algeria will buy $7.5 billion worth of Russian advanced jet fighters,
air defense systems and other weapons.

On May 26 Russian Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov also announced that
his country would definitely supply Iran with sophisticated Tor-M1
anti-aircraft missiles, reportedly as a prelude to supplying even more
sophisticated weapons.

Then, in one of the more fascinating examples of geopolitical
chutzpah, the Kremlin-controlled Gazprom gas monopoly entered quiet
negotiations with Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert through his
billionaire friend, Benny Steinmetz, to secure Russian natural-gas
supplies to Israel via an undersea pipeline from Turkey to Israel.

According to the Israeli paper Yediot Ahronot, Olmert's office has
said it will support the Gazprom proposal. In several years Israel
faces a shortage of gas from Tethys Sea drilling and soon from Egypt.
Tethys Sea gas is projected to run dry in a few years. British Gas is
in talks to supply gas from Gaza but Israel disputes BG's right to
drill.

But even with Egypt and Gaza, gas shortages are expected by 2010
unless Israel is able to find new sources. Enter Gazprom and Putin.
The gas would be diverted from the under-used Russia-Turkey Bluestream
Pipeline, which Russia built to increase its influence over Turkey two
years ago. Putin clearly seeks to gain a lever inside Israel over the
one-sided US influence on Israeli policy.

China energy geopolitics also in high gear
For its part, Beijing is also moving to "secure energy at the
sources". China's booming economy, with 10% growth, requires massive
natural resources. China became a net importer of oil in 1993. By
2045, China will depend on imported oil for 45% of its energy needs.

On May 26, crude oil began to flow into China through a newly
completed pipeline from Atasu, Kazakhstan, to the Alataw Pass in
China's far-western region of Xinjiang, a 1,000-kilometer route
announced only last year. It marked the first time oil is being pumped
directly into China. Kazakhstan is also a member of the SCO, but had
been regarded by Washington since the collapse of the Soviet Union as
in its sphere of influence, with ChevronTexaco, Rice's former oil
company, the major oil developer.

By 2011 the pipeline with extend some 3,000km to Dushanzi, where the
Chinese are building their largest oil refinery, due to completed by
2008. China financed the entire $700 million pipeline and will buy the
oil. Last year the China National Petroleum Corp bought
PetroKazakhstan for $4.2 billion and will use it to develop oilfields
in Kazakhstan.

China is also in negotiations with Russia for a pipeline to deliver
Siberian oil to northeastern China, a project that could be completed
by 2008, and a natural-gas pipeline from Russia to Heilongjiang
province in China's northeast. China just passed Japan to rank as
world's second-largest oil importer behind the United States.

Beijing and Moscow are also integrating their electricity grids. Late
last month the China State Grid Corp announced plans to increase
imports of Russian electricity fivefold by 2010.

In its relentless quest to secure future oil supplies "at the source",
China has also moved into traditional US, British and French oil
domains in Africa. In addition to being the major developer of Sudan's
oil pipeline, which ships some 7% of total China oil imports, Beijing
has been more than active in West Africa, the source of vast fields of
highly prized low-sulfur oil.

Since the creation of the China-Africa Forum in 2000, China has
scrapped tariffs on 190 imported goods from 28 of the least developed
African countries, and canceled $1.2 billion in debt.

Indicative of the way China is doing an end-run around the
Western-controlled International Monetary Fund among African states,
China's Export-Import Bank recently gave a $2 billion soft loan to
Angola. In return, the Luanda government gave China a stake in oil
exploration in shallow waters off the coast. The loan is to be used
for infrastructure projects. In contrast, US interest in war-torn
Angola has rarely gone beyond the well-fortified oil enclave of
Cabinda, which ExxonMobil along with Shell Oil have dominated until
recently. That is apparently about to change with the growing Chinese
interest.

Chinese infrastructure projects under way in Angola include railways,
roads, a fiber-optic network, schools, hospitals, offices and 5,000
units of housing developments. A new airport with direct flights from
Luanda to Beijing is also planned.

Indirectly, through its support of the Sudanese government, China is
also a contender in a high-stakes game of potential regime change in
neighboring, oil-rich Chad. This year, World Bank president Paul
Wolfowitz was forced to back down from plans to cut off World Bank aid
because of the threat of an oil-export cutoff by Chad. ExxonMobil is
currently the major oil company active in Chad. But Sudan backs
Chadian rebels, who were only prevented from toppling the notoriously
corrupt and unpopular regime of President Idriss Deby by the 1,500
French soldiers propping up the regime. Washington has joined with
Paris in backing Deby.

Sudan has involved Chinese, rather than Western, corporations in
exploiting its oilfields, largely as a result of misconceived US
sanctions imposed in 1997, which blocked US oil companies from doing
business in Sudan. A new Sudan-backed regime in Chad would jeopardize
the Chad-Cameroon pipeline and Western oil firms. One can imagine
China just might be willing to step into such a vacuum and help Chad
develop its oil, especially if the lion's share went to China.

Immediately after his humiliating diplomatic visit to Washington in
April, President Hu went on to Nigeria, Africa's largest oil producer
and long regarded by Washington as in its "oil sphere of interest". In
Nigeria, Hu signed a deal whereby the African country will give China
four oil-drilling licenses in exchange for a commitment to invest $4
billion in infrastructure.

China will buy a controlling stake in Nigeria's 110,000-barrel-per-day
Kaduna oil refinery and build railway and power stations, as well as
take a 45% stake in developing Nigeria's OML-130 offshore oil and gas
field, referred to by the chairman of China National Overseas Oil Corp
as "an oil and gas field of huge interest ... located in one of the
world's largest oil and gas basins".

Almost all of Nigeria's current oil production is controlled by
Western multinationals. But the situation there will also soon change
in China's favor. Similar soft infrastructure loans or energy
investment offers are being made to Gabon, Ivory Coast, Liberia and
Equatorial Guinea. The curious charge against China of "not playing by
the rules" and "trying to secure energy at the source" begins to
assume real dimension when these and Russia's recent energy moves are
taken as a totality.

Whither Washington?
It's little wonder that some Washington hawks are getting alarmed.
Suddenly, the world of potential "enemies" is no longer restricted to
the Islam-centered "war on terror". Leading neo-conservative ideologue
Robert Kagan wrote a prominent opinion article recently in the
Washington Post. Kagan is privy to pretty high-level thinking in
Washington, presumably. His wife, Victoria Nuland, worked as Vice
President Richard Cheney's deputy national security adviser until
being named US ambassador to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.

Kagan declared, in reference to Russia and China, "Until now the
liberal West's strategy has been to try to integrate these two powers
into the international liberal order, to tame them and make them safe
for liberalism. If, instead, China and Russia are going to be sturdy
pillars of autocracy over the coming decades, enduring and perhaps
even prospering, then they cannot be expected to embrace the West's
vision of humanity's inexorable evolution toward democracy and the end
of autocratic rule."

Kagan charged that China and Russia have emerged as the protectors of
"an informal league of dictators" that, according to Kagan, currently
includes the leaders of Belarus, Uzbekistan, Myanmar, Zimbabwe, Sudan,
Venezuela, Iran and Angola, among others around the world, who, like
the leaders of Russia and China themselves, resist any efforts by the
West to interfere in their domestic affairs, either through sanctions
or other means. "The question is what the United States and Europe
decide to do in response," wrote Kagan.

The mainstream US foreign-policy organization, the New York-based
Council on Foreign Relations, has also recently weighed in on the
question of Chinese energy pursuits. In a recent report, the CFR
accuses the Bush administration of lacking any comprehensive long-term
strategy for Africa. It criticizes US focus on humanitarian issues
such as in Darfur southern Sudan, demanding instead that the US "act
on its rising national interests on the continent". Those interests?
The CFR lists oil and gas as No 1; growing competition with China
(closely related to No 1) as No 2.

F William Engdahl is author of the book A Century of War:
Anglo-American Oil Politics and the New World Order (Pluto Press Ltd).
He has a soon-to-be published book on genetically modified organisms
titled Seeds of Destruction: The Hidden Political Agenda Behind GMO.
He may be contacted through his website,
www.engdahl.oilgeopolitics.net.

===============================

There are more I have filed somewhere if you want to read them.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 8 2008 8:43 am
From: John Mianowski

On Apr 8, 10:25 am, "Jeffrey Hamilton" <bberesf...@cogeco.ca> wrote:

...
> I have no idea of the overall quality of Chinese troops, who have they
> fought since Korea and how did they do?
...

Student protesters in Tianamen Square, for one.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cold Dead Hands
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.military.naval/browse_thread/thread/45e9bc40f767d82a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 8 2008 8:26 am
From: David Phillips

On 8 Apr 2008 07:04:09 GMT, Juergen Nieveler
<juergen.nieveler.nospam@arcor.de> wrote:

>"Roger Conroy" <rogerconroy.nospam@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Did he ever harm anyone with that gun?
>
>The one he held over his head during the famous speech?
>
>Doubtfull, AFAIK it was a fake...

I'm somewhat sure, but too lazy to look it up, that it was a
functioning flintlock. IIRC, it was a recently built replica.

Many folks were angry at him for using a flintlock in that speech.
Should have been a main battle rifle :-)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Ideal French anti-pirate forces for Somali region?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.military.naval/browse_thread/thread/50fb60bffa6d616f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 8 2008 8:27 am
From: Tiger

hcobb wrote:
> On Apr 7, 9:50 am, "Paul J. Adam" <n...@jrwlynch.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>In message
>><ca593db9-06e8-4fcb-b126-fb5badf26...@b9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
>>hcobb <henry.c...@gmail.com> writes
>>
>>>The ideal anti-pirate ship is the LCS.
>>
>>>Pirates don't ply the high seas anymore,
>>
>>I think you may be misinformed.
>
>
> Sorry, but modern day pirates operate close to their bases, which are
> located in countries where the reign of the rule of law is weak or
> nonexistent.
>
> They do not sail thousands of kilometers out to sea to find targets.
>
> Piracy is a littoral problem.
>
> -HJC

So where is your LCS going to operate from? While the bad gus may be
close to their base, your along way from yours???

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ...KAFUCKINBOOM!!!...5 more Dead Suckers...drip...
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.military.naval/browse_thread/thread/33aa0e84d00616db?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 8 2008 8:29 am
From: "Patriot Games"

"Dr. James West, Ph.D." <nada@nobull.com> wrote in message
news:saidnRdLQK_2qWfanZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@toastnet...
> "We told you so."
> ...drip...for YEARS to come...

Paid for by Democrats who fully funded the War three times in a row!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: favorite naval movies
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.military.naval/browse_thread/thread/3eb9394c8d9c4d9b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 8 2008 8:40 am
From: Tiger

Paul J. Adam wrote:
> Guilty pleasure: "Under Siege". Yes, it's silly stuff, but it was made
> when Steven Seagal was still bankable for theatre releases, Erika
> Eleniak takes her top off in an amusingly self-mocking role ("I'm an
> _actress!_ I did a Wet'n'Wild video, and a Hunter episode...") Tommy Lee
> Jones and Gary Busey chew the scenery to splinters, and the battleship
> setting is nicely used.
>
>

Guilty pleasure indeed. Seal/Mess Specialist saves Bb63 From Mad man XO
& Tommy Lee Jones. Corny but beats watching This old house or Golf....

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 8 2008 8:44 am
From: Tiger

Eugene Griessel wrote:
> "Jeff Crowell" <jeffDOTcrowell@hp.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Paul J. Adam wrote:
>>
>>>Guilty pleasure: "Under Siege". Yes, it's silly stuff, but it was made
>>>when Steven Seagal was still bankable for theatre releases, Erika Eleniak
>>>takes her top off in an amusingly self-mocking role ("I'm an _actress!_ I
>>>did a Wet'n'Wild video, and a Hunter episode...") Tommy Lee Jones and Gary
>>>Busey chew the scenery to splinters, and the battleship setting is nicely
>>>used.
>>
>>Yeah! And where else you gonna see a bunch of guys fire a
>>16" turret in local control?
>>
>>I've always loved (in this and all other "hail of bullets in a steel
>>compartment" movies) how no one gets nailed by ricochets.
>
>
> After 45 years of shooting at James Bond, mostly by well-trained evil
> henchman with superior marksman's skills, they have yet to hit him.
> Not to mention emerging unscathed from numerous other devices evil
> overlords have used to attempt to cull the sod.
>
>
> Eugene L Griessel
>
> A: Because it disturbs the logical flow of the message.
> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon?
>
> - I usually post only from Sci.Military.Naval -

Hey don't forgett those geat shots the A- team. Loaded with Ruger mini
14's and Ammo yet never even winged a guy. Thank God for Miami Vice. At
least Crockett & Tubb hit center of mass.

==============================================================================

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Tuesday, April 8, 2008

25 new messages in 12 topics - digest

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