The Captain: 25 new messages in 9 topics

sci.military.naval
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.military.naval?hl=en

sci.military.naval@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT - Breaking News: Is this why Eugene has been "busy" lately? Paris
Hilton doing charity work in his country ...
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.military.naval/browse_thread/thread/599ca40720c8e510?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 24 2008 9:10 am
From: "La N"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23771372/

Paris' 'charity' work in Africa

By Courtney Hazlett
The Scoop
updated 10:50 p.m. ET, Sun., March. 23, 2008

Paris Hilton's 'charity' tour through Africa

Making good on her post-prison promise to leave her party days behind her
and do more charity work, Paris Hilton and beau Benji Madden traveled to
South Africa last week, where Madden performed and Hilton swung by the
Jakaranda Kinderhuis School to do what else - autograph glossy photographs
of herself.

People magazine has an update of the story and reported that Friday night,
Hilton organized "a VIP party for herself" in Johannesburg, South Africa.
The magazine noted that although she and Madden hung out in the VIP section
while her fans partied below, she did announce that she "loved South Africa,
the accent and everyone."

Still no word on those women's halfway houses she was so excited about
building.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 24 2008 9:21 am
From: eugene@dynagen..co..za (Eugene Griessel)

"La N" <nilita2004NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>
>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23771372/
>
>Paris' 'charity' work in Africa
>
>By Courtney Hazlett
>The Scoop
>updated 10:50 p.m. ET, Sun., March. 23, 2008
>
>Paris Hilton's 'charity' tour through Africa
>
>Making good on her post-prison promise to leave her party days behind her
>and do more charity work, Paris Hilton and beau Benji Madden traveled to
>South Africa last week, where Madden performed and Hilton swung by the
>Jakaranda Kinderhuis School to do what else - autograph glossy photographs
>of herself.
>
>People magazine has an update of the story and reported that Friday night,
>Hilton organized "a VIP party for herself" in Johannesburg, South Africa.
>The magazine noted that although she and Madden hung out in the VIP section
>while her fans partied below, she did announce that she "loved South Africa,
>the accent and everyone."
>
>Still no word on those women's halfway houses she was so excited about
>building.

Watch out for the "private" Paris and Eugene video soon to be
released.....

For which I've been given 5 years by the judge for "exhibiting extreme
bad taste". It's a job, and somebody dirty has to do it.

Eugene L Griessel

Transfer - A promotion you receive on the condition that you
leave town.

- I usually post only from Sci.Military.Naval -

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 24 2008 9:29 am
From: Gernot Hassenpflug

"La N" <nilita2004NOSPAM@yahoo.com> writes:

> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23771372/
>
> Paris' 'charity' work in Africa
>
> By Courtney Hazlett
> The Scoop
> updated 10:50 p.m. ET, Sun., March. 23, 2008
>
> Paris Hilton's 'charity' tour through Africa

/../

> People magazine has an update of the story and reported that Friday night,
> Hilton organized "a VIP party for herself" in Johannesburg, South Africa.
> The magazine noted that although she and Madden hung out in the VIP section
> while her fans partied below, she did announce that she "loved South Africa,
> the accent and everyone."

/../

All South Africans, please join me to give a collective hurl in disgust.
--
Gernot Hassenpflug

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 24 2008 9:37 am
From: eugene@dynagen..co..za (Eugene Griessel)

Gernot Hassenpflug <gernot@coda.ocn.ne.jp> wrote:

>"La N" <nilita2004NOSPAM@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23771372/
>>
>> Paris' 'charity' work in Africa
>>
>> By Courtney Hazlett
>> The Scoop
>> updated 10:50 p.m. ET, Sun., March. 23, 2008
>>
>> Paris Hilton's 'charity' tour through Africa
>
>/../
>
>> People magazine has an update of the story and reported that Friday night,
>> Hilton organized "a VIP party for herself" in Johannesburg, South Africa.
>> The magazine noted that although she and Madden hung out in the VIP section
>> while her fans partied below, she did announce that she "loved South Africa,
>> the accent and everyone."
>
>/../
>
>All South Africans, please join me to give a collective hurl in disgust.

Hassenpflug there is no time to hurl - keep digging at that bunker.

Maybe she'll pop into the Nag for a drink and I'll get Jumbo to sit on
her!

Eugene L Griessel

Daisies of the world unite! You have nothing to lose but your chains.

- I usually post only from Sci.Military.Naval -

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Boughten
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.military.naval/browse_thread/thread/4dd8a958ae3028e0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 24 2008 9:12 am
From: Evan Kirshenbaum

James Hogg <Jas.HoggOUT@SPAM.gmail.com> writes:

> On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 17:48:50 -0000, "D. Spencer Hines"
> <panther@excelsior.com> wrote:
>
>>BOUGHTEN is a perfectly Good English Word and has been used
>>frequently in Poetic English.
>
> Please quote some poetry with "boughten". Or do you want me to
> write a poem including the word, so that your faslehood can become
> true?

The one that seems to be quoted most often is Frost's "Provide,
Provide", which ends

Better to go down dignified
With boughten friendship at your side
Than none at all. Provide, provide!

> I counted the number of times "boughten" occurs in the OED: zero.

You might want to count again. Three quotations in the entry proper,
from 1793 to 1825, seven overall, although one, from 1450 is a past
tense rather than a participle. The other three, from 1883 to 1933,
use "store-boughten".

--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |It is error alone which needs the
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |support of government. Truth can
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |stand by itself.
| Thomas Jefferson
kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572

http://www.kirshenbaum.net/

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 24 2008 9:17 am
From: "La N"

"Evan Kirshenbaum" <kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com> wrote in message
news:3aqgcd9i.fsf@hpl.hp.com...
> James Hogg <Jas.HoggOUT@SPAM.gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 17:48:50 -0000, "D. Spencer Hines"
>> <panther@excelsior.com> wrote:
>>
>>>BOUGHTEN is a perfectly Good English Word and has been used
>>>frequently in Poetic English.
>>
>> Please quote some poetry with "boughten". Or do you want me to
>> write a poem including the word, so that your faslehood can become
>> true?
>
> The one that seems to be quoted most often is Frost's "Provide,
> Provide", which ends
>
> Better to go down dignified
> With boughten friendship at your side
> Than none at all. Provide, provide!
>

And yet another poster brang evidence of "lazy" poesy!

And, btw, is "brang" a word?

- nilita

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 24 2008 9:37 am
From: Steve Ketcham

In article <3aqgcd9i.fsf@hpl.hp.com>,
Evan Kirshenbaum <kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com> wrote:

> The one that seems to be quoted most often is Frost's "Provide,
> Provide", which ends
>
> Better to go down dignified
> With boughten friendship at your side
> Than none at all. Provide, provide!
>

Actually, this fits with my experience with "boughten". I've heard it
all my life from speakers of the eastern Vermont/New Hampshire/inland
Maine variety of American English ... an accent sadly in decline, in my
opinion. With his time in NH and VT, Frost would have heard it, too.

Steve

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 24 2008 9:37 am
From: James Hogg

On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 09:12:09 -0700, Evan Kirshenbaum
<kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com> wrote:

>James Hogg <Jas.HoggOUT@SPAM.gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 17:48:50 -0000, "D. Spencer Hines"
>> <panther@excelsior.com> wrote:
>>
>>>BOUGHTEN is a perfectly Good English Word and has been used
>>>frequently in Poetic English.
>>
>> Please quote some poetry with "boughten". Or do you want me to
>> write a poem including the word, so that your faslehood can become
>> true?
>
>The one that seems to be quoted most often is Frost's "Provide,
>Provide", which ends
>
> Better to go down dignified
> With boughten friendship at your side
> Than none at all. Provide, provide!
>
>> I counted the number of times "boughten" occurs in the OED: zero.
>
>You might want to count again. Three quotations in the entry proper,
>from 1793 to 1825, seven overall, although one, from 1450 is a past
>tense rather than a participle. The other three, from 1883 to 1933,
>use "store-boughten".

I've already been corrected on that point by a lesser man than you.

I confined my quick OED search to the verb "buy", and among the past
participle spellings I found only:

1 ({asg}e)boht, 2 iboht, 3 boht, 3-4 bohut, (i-, y-)bou{ygh}t, 3-4, 7
boght, 3-5 bo{ygh}t, 4 yboht, bowght, (bout), 4-5 boghte, bo{ygh}te,
(y-)bou{ygh}te, (5 ybou{ygh}ht), 5-6 boughte, (6 bouht, bowte,
beyght), 5- bought, Sc. bocht.

It never struck me that the fiendishly clever lexicographers might
have classified it as an adjective.

Anyway, it's got nothing to do with the non-existent verb "wetten".

And it amazes me that anyone can apply the epithet "poetic" to
Coleridge's phrase "boughten succours".

James

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The 1421 Theory - 'cuts'
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.military.naval/browse_thread/thread/1d9b48487795b89f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 24 2008 10:13 am
From: "Ray O'Hara"

<am05@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:53915c3f-3e3f-4fbc-96a2-f9a6bbfb335e@n75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 23, 11:17 am, "a425couple" <a425cou...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Arved Sandstrom" <asandst...@accesswave.ca> wrote .
>
> > "Ray O'Hara" <mary.palmu...@rcn.com> wrote ...
> > > "La N" <nilita2004NOS...@yahoo.com> wrote
> > [ SNIP ]
> > >> Anyway, it could be that Chinese discovered America. However,
> > >> there are all sorts of Menzies-debunking sites. Who knows.
>
> > > yeah the chinese discovered everywhere but somehow missed europe.
>
> > To be fair, the Chinese already knew about Europe, depending on your
> > time frame. And vice versa. At least as far back as the Romans.
>
> Kind'a yes to all above.
> As I took it, Ray was alluding to one of the major
> 'de-bunking' thoughts that I understand is:
> China knew of Europe, Europe knew of China,
> they both had an interest in trade, they were both
> creating documents/records.
> So, --- if they had done all this sailing and exploring,
> why not sail there?
> (i.e. why sail to Antartica for nothing, when Europe profitable?)

The Medieval Chinese did not 'sail' to Europe and the Europeans did
not 'sail' to China: most of the travel had been done overland.

columbus was trying to sail to asia when he hit the new world.
if a chinese fleet was blundering around the atlantic hitting places like
greenland and north america it is inconcievable they missed visiting europe.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: A Wise, Wise Man
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.military.naval/browse_thread/thread/62abbfd7b58dc30c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 24 2008 9:14 am
From: Paul J Gans

In alt.history.british deemsbill@aol.com <deemsbill@aol.com> wrote:
>On Mar 24, 9:29 am, a...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> On Mar 24, 7:32 am, James Hogg <Jas.Hogg...@SPAM.gmail.com> wrote:> "Just do as you please, young man. Acting morally will get you
>> > nowhere. Feigning morality, on the other hand, will con enough people
>> > to ensure your success. Power and achievement in this world come to
>> > him who is the biggest asshole. Pass that message along to your
>> > descendants. But beware: do not act like such an obvious jackass that
>> > _everyone_ sees through you."
>>
>> Funny, but this is very close to the recommendations given by Count
>> Rastopchin (person quite different from Jefferson in his background
>> and career) to a young man who was just starting his career in the
>> Russian Empire of early 1820's.
>>
>> Perhaps the rules of success have little to do with a social
>> system. :-)

> I always liked "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle
>them with bullsh*t".

I have that as "If you can't baffle them with brilliance, bury them
in bullsh*t." But the meaning is the same. ;-)

--
--- Paul J. Gans

==============================================================================
TOPIC: HK Kormoran + HMAS Sydney
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.military.naval/browse_thread/thread/572f32cc1899b188?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 24 2008 9:01 am
From: CJ Adams

Vince wrote:
"
>
> A guard mount does not actually get on anything
>
> Vince
>

They get on their posts.

Cheers
CJ Adams
Stick man.

== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 24 2008 9:16 am
From: eugene@dynagen..co..za (Eugene Griessel)

Vince <firelaw@firelaw.us> wrote:

>Eugene Griessel wrote:
>> "Jeff" <jeff@local.host> wrote:
>>
>>>> This was a very large ship that could not give the required recognition
>>>> signal
>>>>
>>>> You don't go near it.
>>>>
>>> For how long??? What do you do if the vessels still says it is friendly?
>>> When do you take the decision to fire on it or to board it??
>>
>> Merchantmen were notorious for being bad at signalling. I remember
>> reading of a convoy in which one merchantman refused to respond to
>> signals and they basically had to wait for a watch change before they
>> could get an intelligible response from the ship. Very independent
>> types, merchies.
>>
>> It would not have been unusual to be getting garbled responses from a
>> Dutch (or Norwegian) registered ship.
>
>A ship traveling alone in a war zone had better be very good at giving
>the recognition signal.

History shows they were not.

Eugene L Griessel

Transfer - A promotion you receive on the condition that you
leave town.

- I usually post only from Sci.Military.Naval -

== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 24 2008 10:21 am
From: "Ray O'Hara"

"Jeff" <jeff@local.host> wrote in message
news:47e76bdf$0$1347$834e42db@reader.greatnowhere.com...
> It highlights the dilemma that Sydney's Captain had, even if he fired a
> warning shot, what do you do then? If the Kormoran still kept up the guise
> of a friendly ship, do you actually fire on the ship or send a boarding
> party. If you chose to send a boarding party then you have to get too
close
> for comfort. Perhaps you do not position yourself so that you can receive
a
> broadside, but you have to close the distance so that you boat can make
the
> trip .
>
> Jeff
>
>

if it doesn't stop after a shot over the bow the sydney has done its duty
and is now free to open fire, all damage would be the fault of the merchant
captain.

== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 24 2008 9:24 am
From: "BF Lake"

"Vince" <firelaw@firelaw.us> wrote in message
news:CKmdnWf2uZ3wW3ranZ2dnUVZ_qainZ2d@comcast.com...

> > To my ear, when somebody says "mount" I immediately identify him as an
> > American. We always say "mounting."

> Interesting
>
> do the household cavalry purchase "remountings" or remounts ? :-)
>
> i know its a very crude measure crude but but "gun mounting" is
> outscored in google by Gun mount 145000 to 31000

I think a mount is a horse (not the nautical kind) I think a remount is a
replacement horse for when yours kicks the bucket (not the milk bucket) If
you call a cavalry person's horse a horse he will get upset ( but not fall
off) and say it is a "charger" (if an officer's horse ) or "trooper" if a
horse ridden by the "troops" in the troop. (a "good trooper" is a horse not
a person I think) I think the Artillery don't care about that and call
them horses as in horse artillery.

You can also always tell an American when he says "topsides" when he means
upperworks instead of what topsides are, and main deck when he means upper
deck and overhead when he means deckhead and hawse hole when he means hawse
pipe and stack when he means funnel, and so forth. It's a wonder they can
even get their ships to sea the way they get so mixed up in what things are
called : )

Regards,
Barry

== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 24 2008 9:27 am
From: "BF Lake"

"CJ Adams" <bluebell@start.ca> wrote in message
news:2vvkb5-7u5.ln1@news.start.ca...
> Vince wrote:
> "
> >
> > A guard mount does not actually get on anything
> >
> > Vince
> >
>
> They get on their posts.

first or last?

Regards,
Barry

== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 24 2008 10:28 am
From: "Ray O'Hara"

"Jeff" <jeff@local.host> wrote in message
news:47e7bd41$0$1348$834e42db@reader.greatnowhere.com...
> >
> > This was a very large ship that could not give the required recognition
> > signal
> >
> > You don't go near it.
> >
>
> For how long??? What do you do if the vessels still says it is friendly?
> When do you take the decision to fire on it or to board it??
>
> Jeff
>
>

vince has taken his "argument" to the level of absurdity.
the sydney's mistake was not in being to close but in not being ready to
fight.
the sydney should have easily gotten in the first salvo or two.
the kormoran would have had to drop its sheilds hiding the guns and then
train the guns outboard and towards the sydney.
the fact that kormoran did that and still get in the first shots speaks
volumns about sydneys lack of readiness.

== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 24 2008 9:27 am
From: "Andrew Chaplin"

"CJ Adams" <bluebell@start.ca> wrote in message
news:tlvkb5-7u5.ln1@news.start.ca...
> Andrew Chaplin wrote:
>
>>
>> "Mount" is the order to get on your horse or into your vehicle, as in,
>> "Bugler, sound the 'Mount!'"
>
>
> Trumpeter, surely?
>
>
> http://www.farmersboys.com/music/Bugle_Calls/Mounted%20Corps/62.mp3

I heard "Bugler" on parade with the Straths. With the Guns, it would, as you
say, be "Trumpeter."
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 24 2008 9:30 am
From: "Andrew Chaplin"

"BF Lake" <noname@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:rBQFj.122642$C61.120843@edtnps89...
>
> "Vince" <firelaw@firelaw.us> wrote in message
> news:CKmdnWf2uZ3wW3ranZ2dnUVZ_qainZ2d@comcast.com...
>
>> > To my ear, when somebody says "mount" I immediately identify him as an
>> > American. We always say "mounting."
>
>
>> Interesting
>>
>> do the household cavalry purchase "remountings" or remounts ? :-)
>>
>> i know its a very crude measure crude but but "gun mounting" is
>> outscored in google by Gun mount 145000 to 31000
>
> I think a mount is a horse (not the nautical kind) I think a remount is a
> replacement horse for when yours kicks the bucket (not the milk bucket) If
> you call a cavalry person's horse a horse he will get upset ( but not fall
> off) and say it is a "charger" (if an officer's horse ) or "trooper" if a
> horse ridden by the "troops" in the troop. (a "good trooper" is a horse not
> a person I think) I think the Artillery don't care about that and call
> them horses as in horse artillery.

Artillery horses could, as required, be switched from the teams to outriders
because, "a horse is a horse, of course, of course."
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: New Topic: Pissing Contests
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.military.naval/browse_thread/thread/8f231c6c6be43601?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 24 2008 9:08 am
From: CJ Adams

Andrew Chaplin wrote:
> "CJ Adams" <bluebell@start.ca> wrote in message
> news:63mkb5-9q3.ln1@news.start.ca...
>> Mark Bradford wrote:
>> > And not only that, where is the naval content? If we are going to talk
>>> about urinating, at least say urinating over the side. That way we can
>>> argue if it is better to use the port or starboard, bow or stern.
>>>
>>>
>> Loo'ard, surely.
>
> I vote we all piss to loonward.

Tis a target-rich environment, in here.

Cheers
CJ Adams
Pass the beer.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Could Operation Iraqi Freedom have been waged differently to be
successful long ago?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.military.naval/browse_thread/thread/775c2328850ae278?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 24 2008 10:17 am
From: "Ray O'Hara"

<deemsbill@aol.com> wrote in message
news:791908d8-9fbf-4948-bec2-bc4fef11968b@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 24, 8:30 am, Peter Skelton <skelt...@cogeco.ca> wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 08:11:29 -0400, "Mark Bradford"
>
>
>
>
>
> <markb...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> >"Ray O'Hara" <mary.palmu...@rcn.com> wrote in message
> >news:J42dnUTa1b20OXvanZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@rcn.net...
>
> >> <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote in message
> >>news:6d35ab9a-fe78-43e8-aa57-cc123b627444@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> >> On Mar 23, 2:31 am, "Ray O'Hara" <mary.palmu...@rcn.com> wrote:
> >>> <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
>
>>>news:6466bfdf-0545-427b-9a7d-1d788abaae52@a23g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> >>> On Mar 22, 9:17 pm, Dan <dnada...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> > First, one needs to define "successful."
>
> >>> > Oil prices are very high and oil companies are making record
profits.
> >>> > That's a success to some people.
>
> >>> > The most unpopular Resident, after 6 months in office, was very
popular
> >>> > for a while. That's a success to some people.
>
> >>> > The worst Resident in US history got himself reelected. That's a
> >>> > success to some people.
>
> >>> Buchanan was reelected? Who knew.
>
> >>> i think{hope} the chimperor has retired the worst ever trophy.
>
> >> He's in the bottom five, but I don't think he holds a candle to
> >> Buchanan.
>
> >> i do. i'm not defending buchanan mnd you. its just bush has been
> >> incompetent
> >> beyond incompetence
>
> >Buchanan at least exhibited some minor competance while he was Secretary
of
> >State - the purchase of Cuba fiasco notwhithstanding. I am not totally
> >familiar with GWBs tenure as govenor of Texas - can anybody elaborate?
>
> >Comparing the two in the White House - the similarities are scary to say
the
> >least.
>
> The nation recovered from Buchanan. Bush's emulation of Phillip
> II may be more convincing.
>
> Peter Skelton

It was a pretty rough recovery. Bush is still ahead of Buchanan by
over one hundred thousand.

if losses in a war is your criteria then FDR shoiuld be your man.
the slavery crises predated buchanan and while he didn't solve it it wasn't
of his making.
bush has created his own disaster.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Midway - Torpedo Squadron 8
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.military.naval/browse_thread/thread/2501cf6aaafeb884?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 24 2008 9:24 am
From: Gernot Hassenpflug

Jack Linthicum <jacklinthicum@earthlink.net> writes:

> We get those kinds too, what I am talking about is the really junior
> officer that takes the Prussian-German idea of the staff officer that
> really runs the Army to a very illogical extreme. I think of the Sanno
> Incident, the Mukden Incident and the idea of killing Yamamoto because
> he was against much of the "forward" ideas of the Army.
>
> Was the perceived weakness of the emperor Taiho and his young son seen
> as the excuse for the Army to become the strong arm of the Empire,
> whether the older officers wanted it to be or not?

Sorry that is a bit out of my league without a lot more reading... it
does little good to extrapolate from present-day circumstances, one
still requires exact knowledge of specific details and human
relationships at the time. Unfortunately, those details will not be
easilty forthcoming. Perhaps as a start, I could note that the "clubs"
in Japan lead to very fragmented thinking from group to group even
within the same organization, and the hierarchy leads to a disregard
for others' opinions while clinging to that of one's own group as a
matter of social survival. Cross-group interaction was very very
difficult to do successfully.
--
Gernot Hassenpflug

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 24 2008 9:26 am
From: Gernot Hassenpflug

"David E. Powell" <David_Powell3006@msn.com> writes:

> On Mar 24, 8:30 am, "YMC" <removenospam_yauch...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> "Jack Linthicum" <jacklinthi...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>
>> news:9442efb7-a9c8-4fc1-9c67-> Has anyone ever traced the development of the
>> Japanese military
>>
>> > attitude both towards enemies and the "lower classes"? IIRC the
>>
>> Its worth taking a look at - the treatment of prisoners and civilians by the
>> Japanese military at various ages - may be varied. During the odious Opium
>> Wars, the treatment of the Chinese populace by the Japanese Army was notably
>> good and far better than the European armies occupying Chinese territory.
>> But perhaps it had something to do with the Japanese commander who was very
>> strict with his men.
>>
>> In soc-history ww2, one of the posters there is a strong defender of General
>> Yamashita believe it or not, and argues that he didn't order the massacres
>> of Chinese civilians- instead it was one of his rebellious subordinates. He
>> argues that the japanese military lower officers were very prone to
>> counterman their orders in relation to treatment of prisoners and
>> civilians... and the top leadership was ineffective to stop this. believe it
>> or not. lol.
>
> I recall that when the Japanese and British took Tsingtao the Japanese
> commander treated the Germans OK. (WW1.)
>
> One instance was where the Japanese and British had a parade and
> German prisoners were called out to watch. The Germans felt the
> Japanese had been the main force taking Tsingtao, so they watched the
> Japanese march by but turned their back when the British passed them.
> The British commander argued to the Japanese commander that something
> should be done about that, but I recall the Japanese fellow said "We
> can't very well have the whole parade again can we?"

:-) I bet this Japanese fellow had been to the UK for part of his
education, to develop such a sense of humour.

A number of the WW1 prisoners returned to Japan after the war because
of their good treatment there (relatively speaking, that is). It is
quite interesting that the first ever performance of Beethoven's 9th
symphony in Japan was performed in 1917 by an orchestra comprised of
the German prisoners, and that for this reason it is known as the
"Peace Symphony" in Japan.
--
Gernot Hassenpflug

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Pilgrimage To Jerusalem
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.military.naval/browse_thread/thread/c7c456ed1da37a3a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 24 2008 9:34 am
From: Tiglath

On Mar 19, 10:44 am, Fred J. McCall
>
> <gibbering elided>
>
> <poke>
>

He is not only boring himself; he bores many others.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 24 2008 9:36 am
From: Tiglath

On Mar 20, 11:28 pm, Fred J. McCall
>
> <gibbering elided>
>
> <poke>
>

"Kill Tiglath, PLEASE! (reward)"

-- Yono (a.k.a. NoGall)

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 24 2008 9:37 am
From: Tiglath

On Mar 20, 11:31 pm, Fred J. McCall
>
> <gibbering elided>
>
> <poke>
>

Fred is a truly remarkable man, he can hit bottom and still go
downhill.

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Monday, March 24, 2008

25 new messages in 9 topics - digest

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