The Captain: 25 new messages in 10 topics

rec.boats.cruising
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Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Portable walking foot sewing machine comparison.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.boats.cruising/browse_thread/thread/8cf38761fa6da1be?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 19 2008 2:41 am
From: "Dennis Pogson"

Glenn Ashmore wrote:
> I apologize in advance for the "Skip length" post but I thought this
> might be useful.
>
> I have been considering a machine to make things like cockpit
> cushions, interior upholstery, Bimini and maybe even a Stackpak. I
> had been constantly advised not to waste my time on a portable but
> look for a "cheap" industrial. Well, there ain't no "cheap"
> industrials around here. Even if there were it wouldn't fit in the
> boat and the list of other things needing the next $1,000+ out of
> the boat kitty is long.
>
> This weekend I had a visitor to the boat shed who was in the sewing
> machine repair business and he invited me over to his shop for the
> rare opportunity to get a look at 4 different portable and 2
> industrial walking foot zigzag machines side by side.
>
> The industrials were a Juki and a Consew. Both were BIG, over $1,200
> and down right dangerous for a beginner.. Put a piece of Sunbrella
> in the Juki and pressed the foot treadle. Scared the hell out of me.
> Damned thing like to have ate my arm!
>
> The portables were an old Thompson, a Sailrite LSZ-1, a Reliable
> 2000U33 and a Mini-Brute. From the general look I couldn't tell the
> difference other than the Mini-Brute was 2" longer under the arm and
> the Sailrite had the monster wheel installed. All four were al lot
> easier to control and at least to my untrained eye sewed 6 layers of
> Sunbrella equally well but the Sailrite ran a little easier at low
> speed. We took the Monster Wheel off the Sailrite and put on each of
> the others in turn and they improved to about the same low speed
> performance.
>
> We then turned the machines over to look at the guts. Again it was
> almost impossible to find any difference. All 4 have all metal
> parts. No plastic in the works. The Sailrite did have a couple of
> cranks that looked a little better machined but not by much. All 4
> were tight with virtually no play. The Thompson, Sailrite and
> Reliable were made in Taiwan and I would swear they came off the same
> line using the same molds. The Mini-Brute is made in China and there
> is a bit more roughness in the castings but nothing that would effect
> performance that I could tell.
>
> All of them have 1/10th HP motors geared way down to sew 800-900
> stitches/minute which is plenty fast for my fingers. The Monster
> Wheel will gear down all of them even slower and gives a lot more
> punching power.
>
> The Sailrite sells for $970 with the monster wheel but it also comes
> with a wood case and $100 worth of good training and maintenance
> videos on CDs.
>
> The Reliable sells for $500 with a plastic case. Add a monster wheel
> and the Sailrite videos and you are close to $720.
>
> The Mini-Brute sells for $600 with no case but has 2" more work room
> under the arm. Add the Monster Wheel and CDs and you are at $800.
>
> I don't think the Thompson zigzag is made anymore.
>
> One down side of all of them is that they use hard to find presser
> feet. Zipper and welt foot sets cost $60-$65 each and you need both
> to do any decent cushions. Industrial presser feet are half that.
> The Reliable comes with a 3/16" welt foot and the Mini-Brute comes
> with a 1/4" welt foot. To sew 2 layers of Sunbrella over 5/32" welt
> cord you really need a 1/4" welt foot so score $60 to the Mini-Brute.
> Zipper feet are a different matter. Cushions need zippers to avoid a
> lot of hand sewing and you really need a zipper foot to get close to
> the teeth.
>
> I am leaning toward the Mini-Brute even if it is made in China
> because I can see that extra 2" will come in handy.

As one who has spent a lifetime in the sewing industry, I can sympathise
with your fear of heavy industrial machines. Our operators could control
these monsters at speeds of up to 6500 stitches-per-minute (yes, that's more
than 100 stitches-per-second!) But this was their liveliehood, and it ain't
yours!

However, all industrial machines have clutch motors, and some have
"stopright" motors with electronic clutches that can run the machine so
slowly that you can actually watch the needle going through the fabric in
slow motion! I would suggest that you have been misled, and the dealer was
trying to sell you a pup.

A stopright-fitted machine has one advantage in that it will always stop
dead with the needle either at the exact bottom of the stroke (in the
fabric), allowing you to turn the fabric using the needle as a fulcrum, or
by back-heeling it will do a half-revolution AND trim the two threads at the
same time, (no scissors required).

Naturally this is a tremendous advantage to a skilled operator who can run
the machine at or near it's maximum speed, but less so for an amateur sewing
enthusiast to whom accuracy demands a slower speed.

The key to good industrial sewing machines is the motor, not the machine.
Almost all the machines are made to very high standards, but many of the
older ones are sold second-hand with crappy single-phase motors, hence the
virtual impossibilty of running them at "idling" speeds. If you can find one
with an electronic clutch motor you can run it so slow you will fall asleep
watching it.

I confess to knowing little about "domestic" machines, except to look for
one where the hook and base (thats the revolving spool case beneath the
needle plate), is configured the same as on an industrial machine, the
spoolcase looks much the same as on an industrial machine, and is vertical,
i.e. perpendicular to the bottom shaft, and not horizontal (facing upwards).
This configuration is vital when sewing several plies of heavy fabric.

Many lightweight domestic machines are simply too fragile for heavy usage,
no matter what the makers claim. From your descriptions, it would seem to me
that the Sailrite or the Mini-Brute would be your best bet. The ability to
take different sizes of needle (thickness) would be one facility that would
sway me, as thicker fabrics definitey need thicker needles. Also watch out
for the availablity of ballpoint needles when sewing knitted or lightweight
fabrics (e.g. spinnaker fabrics) which can be prone to needle damage if
treated roughly.

Many RTW racing sailboats carry sewing machines to carry out sail repairs en
route. You could ask around and try to find some guy who has crewed on one
of these machines and ask what make, type etc they use, and how good they
are.

Ziog-zag machines are a different matter. No industrial operator would use a
zig-zag machine that was not a "dedicated" zig-zag, i.e. it will NOT do
straight-line sewing, however, recent advances in technology have brought us
quite reliable and versatile domestic machines which can do both zig-zag and
straight without any tendency to mis-stitch, so long as you use them slowly.

I saw a beautifull domestic overlock machine yesterday in a store in
Glasgow. This was a 3-thread overlocker, domestic weight admittedly, but
very well constructed, for £120 brand new! Such a machine in industrial
weight configuration would cost thousands. So we are moving in the right
direction, and your wife would find such a machine far more useful than the
domestic lockstitch machine she has bought which claims to do everything!
(Not much uise for making berth cushions, unless you are a perfectionist and
want them to look as good inside as outside!).

I wish you luck in your search. If industrial machines scare you, or you
have no room for these, then a compromise machine which is well constructed
and could be classed as a "heavy domestic machine" is your best bet.

Dennis.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 19 2008 4:44 am
From: Bruce in Bangkok

On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 17:56:49 -0700, "Capt. JG" <jganz@sailnow.invalid>
wrote:

>"Glenn Ashmore" <gashmore@cox.net> wrote in message
>news:6bZDj.41654$f8.13107@newsfe23.lga...
>>I apologize in advance for the "Skip length" post but I thought this might
>>be useful.
>>
>> I have been considering a machine to make things like cockpit cushions,
>> interior upholstery, Bimini and maybe even a Stackpak. I had been
>> constantly advised not to waste my time on a portable but look for a
>> "cheap" industrial. Well, there ain't no "cheap" industrials around here.
>> Even if there were it wouldn't fit in the boat and the list of other
>> things needing the next $1,000+ out of the boat kitty is long.
>>
snipped
>>
>> We then turned the machines over to look at the guts. Again it was almost
>> impossible to find any difference. All 4 have all metal parts. No
>> plastic in the works. The Sailrite did have a couple of cranks that looked
>> a little better machined but not by much. All 4 were tight with virtually
>> no play. The Thompson, Sailrite and Reliable were made in Taiwan and I
>> would swear they came off the same line using the same molds. The
>> Mini-Brute is made in China and there is a bit more roughness in the
>> castings but nothing that would effect performance that I could tell.
>>
>> All of them have 1/10th HP motors geared way down to sew 800-900
>> stitches/minute which is plenty fast for my fingers. The Monster Wheel
>> will gear down all of them even slower and gives a lot more punching
>> power.
>>
>> The Sailrite sells for $970 with the monster wheel but it also comes with
>> a wood case and $100 worth of good training and maintenance videos on CDs.
>>
>> The Reliable sells for $500 with a plastic case. Add a monster wheel and
>> the Sailrite videos and you are close to $720.
>>
>> The Mini-Brute sells for $600 with no case but has 2" more work room under
>> the arm. Add the Monster Wheel and CDs and you are at $800.
>>
>> I don't think the Thompson zigzag is made anymore.
>>
>> One down side of all of them is that they use hard to find presser feet.
>> Zipper and welt foot sets cost $60-$65 each and you need both to do any
>> decent cushions. Industrial presser feet are half that. The Reliable
>> comes with a 3/16" welt foot and the Mini-Brute comes with a 1/4" welt
>> foot. To sew 2 layers of Sunbrella over 5/32" welt cord you really need a
>> 1/4" welt foot so score $60 to the Mini-Brute. Zipper feet are a
>> different matter. Cushions need zippers to avoid a lot of hand sewing and
>> you really need a zipper foot to get close to the teeth.
>>
>> I am leaning toward the Mini-Brute even if it is made in China because I
>> can see that extra 2" will come in handy.
>>
>> --
>> Glenn Ashmore
>>
>> I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
>> there of) at:

http://www.rutuonline.com
>> Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com
>
>I had the same idea, but couldn't find anything used that seemed worth
>buying. I ended up going to a sewing machine store, and I bought a Janome,
>Sewist 521. I watched the salesperson sew five really think pieces without
>any problem. I paid under $200 for it, and it came with a nice warranty. It
>may not be perfect, but it sure is useful. There was a short learning curve,
>wherein I went through a couple of needles, mostly because I tried to go too
>fast. I did some zippers on Sunbrella right the first time I tried. Not sure
>if this helps any...

I have a Zig Zag Brother similar to the model previously sold by
SailRite that I bought as a bare machine in Singapore. I installed a
motor and built a box for it and have been using it for nearly ten
years. It is an older version of the ZZ 567, line. the accessories can
be purchased at any commercial sewing machine place. I have sewed a
complete mainsail with it. the only place that it can't quite hack it
is on the corner reinforcing. I can't sew the last six inches of the
corner patches.

The prices you are quoting for both the machine and the parts seem, to
me, to be unusually high. Are you being quoted these numbers from a
commercial shop or from Sailrite? If from SailRite you should be aware
that their prices ARE high.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 19 2008 4:59 am
From: Bruce in Bangkok

On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 20:35:57 -0400, "Glenn Ashmore" <gashmore@cox.net>
wrote:

>I apologize in advance for the "Skip length" post but I thought this might
>be useful.
>
>I have been considering a machine to make things like cockpit cushions,
>interior upholstery, Bimini and maybe even a Stackpak. I had been
>constantly advised not to waste my time on a portable but look for a "cheap"
>industrial. Well, there ain't no "cheap" industrials around here. Even if
>there were it wouldn't fit in the boat and the list of other things needing
>the next $1,000+ out of the boat kitty is long.
>
>This weekend I had a visitor to the boat shed who was in the sewing machine
>repair business and he invited me over to his shop for the rare opportunity
>to get a look at 4 different portable and 2 industrial walking foot zigzag
>machines side by side.
>
>The industrials were a Juki and a Consew. Both were BIG, over $1,200 and
>down right dangerous for a beginner.. Put a piece of Sunbrella in the Juki
>and pressed the foot treadle. Scared the hell out of me. Damned thing like
>to have ate my arm!
>
>The portables were an old Thompson, a Sailrite LSZ-1, a Reliable 2000U33 and
>a Mini-Brute. From the general look I couldn't tell the difference other
>than the Mini-Brute was 2" longer under the arm and the Sailrite had the
>monster wheel installed. All four were al lot easier to control and at
>least to my untrained eye sewed 6 layers of Sunbrella equally well but the
>Sailrite ran a little easier at low speed. We took the Monster Wheel off
>the Sailrite and put on each of the others in turn and they improved to
>about the same low speed performance.
>
>We then turned the machines over to look at the guts. Again it was almost
>impossible to find any difference. All 4 have all metal parts. No plastic
>in the works. The Sailrite did have a couple of cranks that looked a little
>better machined but not by much. All 4 were tight with virtually no play.
>The Thompson, Sailrite and Reliable were made in Taiwan and I would swear
>they came off the same line using the same molds. The Mini-Brute is made in
>China and there is a bit more roughness in the castings but nothing that
>would effect performance that I could tell.
>
>All of them have 1/10th HP motors geared way down to sew 800-900
>stitches/minute which is plenty fast for my fingers. The Monster Wheel will
>gear down all of them even slower and gives a lot more punching power.
>
>The Sailrite sells for $970 with the monster wheel but it also comes with a
>wood case and $100 worth of good training and maintenance videos on CDs.
>
>The Reliable sells for $500 with a plastic case. Add a monster wheel and
>the Sailrite videos and you are close to $720.
>
>The Mini-Brute sells for $600 with no case but has 2" more work room under
>the arm. Add the Monster Wheel and CDs and you are at $800.
>
>I don't think the Thompson zigzag is made anymore.
>
>One down side of all of them is that they use hard to find presser feet.
>Zipper and welt foot sets cost $60-$65 each and you need both to do any
>decent cushions. Industrial presser feet are half that. The Reliable comes
>with a 3/16" welt foot and the Mini-Brute comes with a 1/4" welt foot. To
>sew 2 layers of Sunbrella over 5/32" welt cord you really need a 1/4" welt
>foot so score $60 to the Mini-Brute. Zipper feet are a different matter.
>Cushions need zippers to avoid a lot of hand sewing and you really need a
>zipper foot to get close to the teeth.
>
>I am leaning toward the Mini-Brute even if it is made in China because I can
>see that extra 2" will come in handy.

Glen, try the commercial suppliers. I bought a new Brother LSZ some
years ago, in Singapore, for a bit less then US $500. for a bare
machine. I installed a motor and built a box and have been using it
ever since. It does help to make or buy the heavy flywheel that
SailRite sells. Helps, but is not a necessity.

I can do all my sail work, except for the last 4 - 6 inches of the
corner reinforcing with it (40 ft. sloop). Cushions and awnings are
like sewing a handkerchiefs, the little motor is sufficient unless you
are going to sew extremely heavy material and then the machine will
rapidly get out of time with the heavy material.

I suggest that you locate a shop that services commercial shops and
talk to them. AFTER I bought my machine I discovered I could have
bought the same machine, second hand in good condition for a third of
what I paid for it. the price for feet and accessories also seems to
be very high. I bought every foot made for mine at a cost of 5 - 10
dollars a piece.

If you buy one get a thread oiler and some silicon oil as when you get
to heavier material then the machine will sew, the oil gets you one
more layer of material :-)

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Thermostat setting
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.boats.cruising/browse_thread/thread/fb53d3047981cee7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 19 2008 3:53 am
From: "Roger Long"

"RichH" <rhmpL33@att.net> wrote

Why not just bite the bullet and install a heat exchanger ...

Good question.

For most of the advantages of fresh water cooling, it would be the best
answer. I'd like to be able to sail all winter and it will get cold enough
up here for the salt water to freeze in the RW part of the system. I
wouldn't be sailing those days but I wouldn't want the boat in the water
unable to run the engine. Heaters are an answer but electricity is
expensive and it adds another layer of complexity.

Installing a keel cooler on my particular boat would also be a snap compared
to refit of conversion parts due to the working space. I could put in a
separate heat exchanger but it would take up a lot of room. If I end up
taking the engine out of the boat at the same time, I'll probably give a
heat exchanger conversion another thought. Since that would probably be for
an engine rebuild, it would be easy at that point.

Another consideration is that keel cooler maintenance is almost
non-existent. Everything that touches salt is on the outside and gets
cleaned when you scrape the barnacles off.

The Verna lift muffler is a puzzle though that I haven't quite figured out
yet. I've got to be sure that any water remaining in it won't freeze in a
way that blocks the exhaust.

--
Roger Long

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 19 2008 4:23 am
From: Bruce in Bangkok

On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 04:26:08 +0000, Larry <noone@home.com> wrote:

>"tsmwebb@gmail.com" <tsmwebb@gmail.com> wrote in news:97fba7a7-9815-4410-
>b96e-9f5c52c7b79f@h11g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
>
>> cooling has some practical
>> advantages...
>
>I suppose Roger, in Maine, would be pleased to have that hot pipe run
>through the cabin with its nice, warm aluminum fins making the cabin so hot
>you'd have to open the hatch to cool off....in winter...(c;

Even in the day of summer it wouldn't be to turn up your nose at it,
after the sun went down.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 19 2008 6:23 am
From: Larry

RichH <rhmpL33@att.net> wrote in news:51dd3476-919d-47c7-9aae-
91a04c48653f@p73g2000hsd.googlegroups.com:

> hell in Maine, etc. with its cold water you could
> probably dump the BTUs from a ship with one of these.
>

correction....(c;

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 19 2008 6:45 am
From: Larry

Bruce in Bangkok <b*paige*125@g*mail.com> wrote in
news:drt1u3160r0j918jqrac9450g1vrqrsbgm@4ax.com:

> On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 04:26:08 +0000, Larry <noone@home.com> wrote:
>
>>"tsmwebb@gmail.com" <tsmwebb@gmail.com> wrote in
>>news:97fba7a7-9815-4410-
>>b96e-9f5c52c7b79f@h11g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
>>
>>> cooling has some practical
>>> advantages...
>>
>>I suppose Roger, in Maine, would be pleased to have that hot pipe run
>>through the cabin with its nice, warm aluminum fins making the cabin
>>so hot you'd have to open the hatch to cool off....in winter...(c;
>
>
> Even in the day of summer it wouldn't be to turn up your nose at it,
> after the sun went down.
>
> Bruce-in-Bangkok
> (correct email address for reply)
>

We're all poking fun at this, but out in my yard is a 1988 Chevy stepvan
that uses exhaust heat from a little Honda EU1000i as the cabin heater-
power generator all winter in SC. It hasn't gotten much use this year,
but I do run the EU1000i little suitcase genset INSIDE the van behind a
cabinet in a sound-absorbing box. The cooling air exhausts into the
cabin, 100% recovery there. The exhaust of this little genset is a
3/8" pipe in the middle of the cooling air outlet that exits after
cooling the muffler. I welded a pipe nipple onto it, screwed on a 90
degree elbow with copper tubing fitting nipple on it. A coil of real
copper tubing superheats the air coming out of the box, then exits the
truck through a hole in the deck. The pipe is so cool outside you can
hold it in your hand after it has been running an hour. Exhaust gas is
cool to the touch, but the water drizzling out condensed inside the
tubing is a "bit warm". Water vapor in the exhaust gets distilled and
dumped overboard underneath. I could recover it, too, to supply the
Porta Potti, I suppose.

It's very efficient, but still quite noisy. 1 gallon of regular gas
provides hot air and a kilowatt of electric power for about 4.5 hours
for $3. In no time it makes the van toasty warm and sure feels great
coming in from outside below freezing. There's so much heat you have to
vent some of it by leaving the door cracked open or you'll roast! Sure
puts out a lot of Btu for the money....

In the spring, I store the little genset and fire off the EU3000is
that's mounted outside under a custom aluminum cover on the portside
rear hatch, a full width swing door. The extra power drives the two
8000 Btu air conditioners all summer, while the "gas heater" rests in
storage...(c;

You can't heat with the 3000 as the exhaust pipe doesn't come outside
the cabinet, but is exhausted inside the cabinet in the cooling air
plenum and impossible to get to...dammit.

My Chinese diesel 6.5KW beast has a dry stack above it. Under emergency
conditions, it would be easy to duct the cooling heat into a house
without filling the house with deadly CO2 from the engine. Just dry
stack the exhaust away from the cooling air intake a ways by putting a
pipe over the existing stack 8' above it and let rising air blow it
away.

Declaration from Hurricane Hugo in '89 - "I will NEVER be in the dark,
again!"

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 19 2008 10:01 am
From: "Edgar"

"Roger Long" <strider@maine.rr.com> wrote in message
news:47e0f09e$0$6133$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> The Verna lift muffler is a puzzle though that I haven't quite figured
out
> yet. I've got to be sure that any water remaining in it won't freeze in a
> way that blocks the exhaust.

Here in Norway, just as we are at the dock awaiting the crane to haul us out
for the winter, we turn off the engine water intake thruhull valve and
remove the flexible hose from it and stick it into a can of antifreeze. We
then run the engine until antifreeze comes out of the exhaust outlet and
turns the water in the sea to blue. That way the raw water system is free
from the possibility of freezing and also has protection from corrosion and
also provides lubrication for the raw water pump impeller when you restart
in the spring.

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 19 2008 12:57 pm
From: "Roger Long"

That's pretty much exactly what I do here although I like to do it on shore
after the boat is hauled. I hook up the intake to a bucket I installed a
through hull fitting and valve in and run the engine for several minutes
refilling the bucket with fresh water from a running hose. This flushes out
the salt. I then stop the engine and drain it (not necessary on all makes),
put about 3 gallons of antifreeze in the bucket and run the engine until it
is gone.

The reason for the keel cooler is that I am crazy enough to want to be able
to leave the boat in the water in running condition so I can sail on nice
days during the winter.

Some people who keep their boats in late just run antifreeze into the engine
after every sail but that seems inelegant:)

--
Roger Long

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT - Extremely long! - Energy Audit and budget
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.boats.cruising/browse_thread/thread/9ee1e6ab216965c9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 19 2008 6:23 am
From: Skip Gundlach

I let this sit for a few days to see if there would be more traffic,
but there hasn't, and the other places it's appeared have been
similarly stunned :{)) so rather than let it wait, here's the
responses:

> From: Larry
>
>
> Skip Gundlach <SkipGundlach@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:9724554c-5f6a-49a4-
> a2a5-66cd049da6fd@d62g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:
>
>> energy-efficient equipment...)
>>
>
> Shoulda had the diesel genset rebuilt. Considering all the
> power problems
> of Flying Pig, it would have been cheaper and you could have
> left the place
> anchored out looking like a lighthouse...(c;

Heh. We took out the diesel genset because running it was akin
to having an operating Massey Ferguson in your living room.

We ran it a few times on our delivery (our initial trip, from Ft.
Lauderdale over to St. Pete, via Key West), and determined that
it was so oppressive that the only time we would use it was in an
emergency.

Given that its prime purpose was to power the Air Conditioning,
which we also made a value judgment to remove, the space
available in the ER was far more important to us than being able
to run more stuff.

See the next one, below, for commentary about running stuff.
However, as to power problems, as you should know, having been
intimately involved in their resolution, once a working
alternator, along with the proper sized (and shaped - I believe
the toothy look helps go around small corners and sheds heat
better) belt and pulley, was installed, our power problems
essentially went away.

A case in point was the dark and stormies, combined with no wind,
where we had to motor for 2 days in order to get somewhere before
it got truly nasty, recently. Despite the very high loads due to
all the incandescents in the motoring mode (lights were left
incandescent due to all the power generated under motor), the
computer running all the time (see original about *that* load),
the mikey and other profilgate use, we stayed at "ful" and
~14.3V on the monitor for the entire time.

And, FWIW, I noted in my log, a couple of starts ago, that our
current belt has just passed the 200 hour mark. In that time,
it's had two tightenings, the last being at 200 hours. No
indication that it might fail at any time in the foreseeable
future. I think I have a lifetime supply of belts, now, having
laid in spares in keeping with my prior experiences!

*******

Another poster said this about the Honda and other alternative
means of power generation:

"Roger that on the genset. When we first left we were pretty
dependent on our diesel generator. It failed 3 times in a year,
fortunately we had one solar panel and a low output wind
generator so it wasn't crippling but it was a pain in the ass.

I've got a lot of friends that depend on the Honda 2000
generators. They seem to be bullet proof mechanical marvels but
staying out for extended periods of time depends on how much
gasoline you can carry. Between the genset and the dink some guys
are floating around with 15 or 20 gallons of gas strapped to
their topsides.

We've been able to add 2 more panels and now we only start the
generator once a month to make sure the POS still works.

Angus

_________________
s/v Veranda
Veranda422.Blogspot.com "

*****

> From: Bob
>
>
> On Mar 15, 10:20 am, Skip Gundlach <SkipGundl...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> OT - Extremely long! - Energy Audit and budget
>
>
> Skip,
>
> I got lost about half way through.
>
> How many Ah per day do you use away from the sock?
>
> Bob

Hi, Bob,

I think you mean away from the dock?

As it works out, other than in the low wind, low sun days, we
are, indeed being self sufficient. In those cases, as noted, we
ran the Honda, accomplishing hot water and popcorn at the same
time. As I have not been as anal in measuring exactly our usages
as I might otherwise be, being in the middle of getting off the
boat for our shoreside excursions, I can't tell you exactly.

However, with the exceptions of the changes made and noted, we
expect we used about the number of AH/day as my original lists
showed. So, at anchor, ~110AH in Miami. That's because we
didn't need the fans - the breeze, even in 85+ weather was
sufficient for cooling - and our connection wasn't good enough
for Vonage, saving that overhead as well.

********

Those responses were typed as I was waiting for the lift; Flying Pig
is on the hard, now, and we're landside. My daughter's son was early,
but I got to be there for it, anyway, and I head off to my father's
85th at the end of the month. Before we relaunch I'll have had
another grandson and a graduation, so our seagoing posts (the upcoming
as-yet not posted logs of our last few trips excepted) will be sparse
for a while!

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things
you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 19 2008 6:23 am
From: Skip Gundlach

Heh. We took out the diesel genset because running it was akin
to having an operating Massey Ferguson in your living room.

*******

Another poster said this about the Honda and other alternative
means of power generation:

We've been able to add 2 more panels and now we only start the
generator once a month to make sure the POS still works.

Angus

_________________
s/v Veranda
Veranda422.Blogspot.com "

*****

Hi, Bob,

I think you mean away from the dock?

********

L8R

Skip

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 19 2008 6:25 am
From: "Wilbur Hubbard"

"Skip Gundlach" <SkipGundlach@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2bc24fb4-bb92-48f5-89eb-a6e7eef81631@n58g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>I let this sit for a few days to see if there would be more traffic,
> but there hasn't, and the other places it's appeared have been
> similarly stunned :{)) so rather than let it wait, here's the
> responses:

Stunned? More like bored!

Wilbur Hubbard

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 19 2008 6:52 am
From: Larry

Skip Gundlach <SkipGundlach@gmail.com> wrote in news:2bc24fb4-bb92-48f5-
89eb-a6e7eef81631@n58g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:

> Given that its prime purpose was to power the Air Conditioning,
> which we also made a value judgment to remove, the space
> available in the ER was far more important to us than being able
> to run more stuff.
>

Having been on your boat in the heat at the Megadock, I can attest to
removing both being two big mistakes unless you're going to be rafted up to
Roger in Maine all summer....Even then the sound of diesel is EASILY offset
by the sweating on a hot summer day...

A quiet cabinet genset will easily fit where the monster batteries are
corroding away as I type. Next makes one you can hardly hear run that will
put out 8KW for a little oil. When you put the cover on it, it's like it
was outside. It's a Kubota garden tractor diesel that's way underrated to
last for decades. I know where there's one with 9500 hours on it and it
doesn't even consume 2 oz of lube oil between changes in a hundred hours!

"Is that your bilge pump running?", they ask. "No, that's the diesel
genset." It's that quiet.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Transmission slipping
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.boats.cruising/browse_thread/thread/a87e36b7fc21da38?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 19 2008 9:07 am
From: Dr. Di

I didn't measure the differences in shaft speed, mainly because I have
no way to do it.. But the transmission overheats, and the boat speed
through the water decreases without any change in engine RPM's..

Thanks for your input Bruce, as well as everyone else who attempted to
help.. I guess it's time to consider pulling and rebuilding the
transmission..

Are you really in Bangkok? I think Thailand is a great place to visit,
with very friendly people... At least I found it so...

Diana

On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 09:36:53 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
<b*paige*125@g*mail.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 15:20:30 -0400, Dr. Di <dianakm@earthlink.net>
>wrote:
>
>>Does anyone have experience with an anti-slip additive for marine
>>transmissions? We have a Hurth HBW-150 R2 transmission that is
>>slipping, and we may have to alter our cruising plans as a result.. I
>>really don't want to continue without a workable transmission as I've
>>seen too many situations where sail alone was inadvisable, especially
>>in some of the Bahama cuts..
>>
>>We changed the fluid, checked the linkage, and have been babying it
>>since first noticed.. It doesn't have an oil cooler, and I'm aware
>>that might help, but what we have is what we have..
>>
>>Anyone with suggestions?
>>
>>Diana
>
>I guess the first question is how do you know that it is slipping?
>
>But if you are positive that the transmission is slipping then the
>only solution is to rebuild it. A Hurth is a very simple transmission
>- two clutch packs and a second shaft and gear set to reverse the
>output rotation. If it is slipping then the clutch plates are worn and
>nothing you can do is going to make any real difference.
>
>An oil cooler won't make any difference at this stage but if you do
>rebuild then adding a cooler might make the rebuilt box last longer
>next time.
>
>Foley Marine is a good source of parts and information regarding Hurth
>boxes although there are plenty more on the net.
>
>http://www.foleyengines.com/Home.aspx
>
>
>Bruce-in-Bangkok
>(correct email address for reply)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Proposal
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.boats.cruising/browse_thread/thread/03c3666094d5efb7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 19 2008 9:07 am
From: Martin Baxter

Ryk wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 14:24:45 -0400, in message
> <47deb764$0$24102$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>
> "Roger Long" <strider@maine.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> "Ryk" <ryk@wellingtonhouse.org> wrote
>>
>>> I don't think we need a vetting system here.
>> I don't either and that's not what it is. If you want people to respond to
>> you with some idea of what you and your boat look like, it's a way you can
>> do so. If not, fine.
>>
>>> The idiots are quite
>> That's for sure.
>>
>> Feel free to continue being the mysterious "Ryk".
>
> I'm not that mysterious. wellingtonhouse.org will lead you into some
> pictures of me and my boat, and knowing her name is Dragon III will
> get you a whole lot more information out of the Canadian Registry of
> Ships.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ryk
>
>

Small world Ryk, I work at your sister institution in Kingston, the
military one. My nephew may have done some work for you last year, Steve D.

Cheers
Marty, (Wolfe Island)
------------ And now a word from our sponsor ------------------
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Man, we should be SAILIN'!
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.boats.cruising/browse_thread/thread/2ec2c8f79b284902?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 19 2008 11:04 am
From: Larry

Ahead of the big front, here in Charleston, it's beautifully warm, cloudy
and the wind varies between 20 knots and 35 knots all day!

You can tell it's not raceday at this windspeed....(c;

WE SHOULD BE SAILIN'!

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 19 2008 11:11 am
From: "Thomas, Spring Point Light"

Still snowing .. and snowing and snowing ..

==
"Larry" <noone@home.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A66900BD1E6Enoonehomecom@208.49.80.253...
> Ahead of the big front, here in Charleston, it's beautifully warm, cloudy
> and the wind varies between 20 knots and 35 knots all day!
>
> You can tell it's not raceday at this windspeed....(c;
>
> WE SHOULD BE SAILIN'!
>

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 19 2008 11:40 am
From: Larry

"Thomas, Spring Point Light" <tomcatm@verizon.net> wrote in
news:6HcEj.14111$4q3.6515@trndny02:

> Still snowing .. and snowing and snowing ..
>
> ==
> "Larry" <noone@home.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns9A66900BD1E6Enoonehomecom@208.49.80.253...
>> Ahead of the big front, here in Charleston, it's beautifully warm,
>> cloudy and the wind varies between 20 knots and 35 knots all day!
>>
>> You can tell it's not raceday at this windspeed....(c;
>>
>> WE SHOULD BE SAILIN'!
>>
>
>
>

76F, 35 knots gusting to 45 now, sun finally came out but front barreling
in at a terrific speed like last week. I got the whole house open. The
flowers at Magnolia Gardens & Plantation across the river are blooming and
it's blowing in the windows smellin' up the whole place!

http://www.magnoliaplantation.com/

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 19 2008 12:10 pm
From: "Don White"

"Larry" <noone@home.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A6696344FAFnoonehomecom@208.49.80.253...
> "Thomas, Spring Point Light" <tomcatm@verizon.net> wrote in
> news:6HcEj.14111$4q3.6515@trndny02:
>
>> Still snowing .. and snowing and snowing ..
>>
>> ==
>> "Larry" <noone@home.com> wrote in message
>> news:Xns9A66900BD1E6Enoonehomecom@208.49.80.253...
>>> Ahead of the big front, here in Charleston, it's beautifully warm,
>>> cloudy and the wind varies between 20 knots and 35 knots all day!
>>>
>>> You can tell it's not raceday at this windspeed....(c;
>>>
>>> WE SHOULD BE SAILIN'!
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> 76F, 35 knots gusting to 45 now, sun finally came out but front barreling
> in at a terrific speed like last week. I got the whole house open. The
> flowers at Magnolia Gardens & Plantation across the river are blooming and
> it's blowing in the windows smellin' up the whole place!
>
> http://www.magnoliaplantation.com/
>

Have to admit... your town is one if the places down there I'd like to
visit.
I suppose spring/fall is the best time for someone not used to a lot of heat
& hummidity.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Fed slashes interest rates 3/4% to 2.25
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.boats.cruising/browse_thread/thread/2b3f6f40a747d18f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 19 2008 11:15 am
From: "Thomas, Spring Point Light"

"Larry" <noone@home.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A65BB1C5C90Enoonehomecom@208.49.80.253...
> http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080318/fed_credit_crisis.html
>
> Pretty soon the dollars will be so worthless THEY will be paying YOU
> interest to borrow it!
>
> Gold was below $980/oz, too, off from $1050, but don't expect that new
> yacht to drop at the dealer...(c;
>
> We're in very serious trouble. They can't keep plugging the holes in the
> dam for ever.....
>
> http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/sns-ap-oil-prices,0,4883136.story
> Diesel rose further above $4/gallon making you a genius to buy a sailboat,
> not the Azimut.
>
> "Diesel rose 1.3 cents to a new record national average of $4.015 a gallon
> Tuesday. Delta Air Lines on Tuesday offered buyouts to 30,000 employees,
> about half its work force, and said it will cut domestic capacity 5
> percent
> this year to cope with soaring fuel prices."
>
> Of course, this is NOT at the MARINA!
==

Larry,, talked to a fishing ship captain this week.. He told me it is
$20,000 to leave the dock.
Twice what is was a little over a year ago. That is just fuel. Bait, etc,
add on.

Figure it out,,, same fish, but twice the price to get to same fish.

We are F......ed. This is what happens when the government get too big,
and we elect a dope.
The three who are running now; Hill, Borac, and Casper .. would you hire
any of these people.

We are F........ed.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 19 2008 11:36 am
From: Larry

"Thomas, Spring Point Light" <tomcatm@verizon.net> wrote in
news:RKcEj.11812$u62.5080@trndny07:

> We are F......ed. This is what happens when the government get too
> big, and we elect a dope.
>

You're blamin' the EMPLOYEES! Wrong pointer.....

The money is worthless because of the FEDERAL RESERVE and it's elite group
of BANKER owners. FEDERAL RESERVE is like FEDERAL EXPRESS, a private
corporation. The government borrows money, at interest, from them!

They're at the top of the blame heap....printing worthless bank notes.

They also cause the interminable wars that have gone on since 1913 to line
their pockets with gold. These wars, like Vietnam, are not to be "won",
but to be SUSTAINED so governments keep coming back to borrow more money to
wage them.

Prices only reflect demand, supply and the value of the currency.

We can reduce demand by sending 15% of the population HOME TO THEIR OWN
COUNTRIES. Do you think demand for gas will drop if we reduce consumption
15% by deporting the illegal population? I do.

Eliminating the private central banks is key to problem 3.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Faster in salt or fresh water?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.boats.cruising/browse_thread/thread/1868430c18d0dcba?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 19 2008 12:25 pm
From: richforman

On Mar 17, 5:04 pm, JaxAshby <jaxas...@ao1.com> wrote:

>
> So the bottom line is that small boats do better in fresh, large ones
> in salt.

That's the result I've always gotten with my pwc's, faster top speeds
on the gps in fresh water, and since they are indeed small boats, well
anyway that conclusion does jibe with my experience.

> Some of the more astute here will be puzzled by the dimensions of
> square units.

I was indeed wondering about that (guess that puts me among the
astuter). Still don't know what it means (well, you didn't really
explain it), but again since my boats have all been small I'll just go
with the "small boats" part of your theory and agree.

richforman

==============================================================================
TOPIC: LED anchor light bulb replacement
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.boats.cruising/browse_thread/thread/1a06e7cb1bab4130?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 19 2008 12:44 pm
From: tom

On Mar 16, 11:27 am, Larry <no...@home.com> wrote:
> tom <teejayev...@gmail.com> wrote in news:bfd57ed8-4df0-4214-81bb-
> 0dbd99137...@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com:
>
> > I remember seeing one of these in a magazine some where (specifically
> > talking about
> > replacement for the 15d 10W bulb in a aqua signal anchor light),
> > anybody know a
> > source?
> > Thx, Tom
>
> http://shop.hunterowners.com/detail.htm?fno=200&group=851http://www.svhotwire.com/stecktronics_navigation_lights.htmlhttp://www.lumileds.com/newsandevents/releases/LX_LED_Anchor_Intro.PDFhttp://www.doctorled.com/Dr_LED_PRESS_RELEASE_0612.pdfhttp://www.chetcomarine.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=572http://www.mastlight.com/FAQs.htmlhttp://us.binnacle.com/information.php?info_id=4http://www.shipstore.com/SS/HTML/ASL/ASLSERIES32.html
>
> These are but a few of the 6,170 webpages Google found when I put:
>
> Aqua Signal anchor light LED replacement
>
> into the great Google Search Engine atwww.google.com.
>
> Try it for yourself! It doesn't hurt....(c;

I did (- replacement) but I got a zillion pages, maybe I should have
added a the modifier "good"
thx,
Tom

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 19 2008 1:12 pm
From: "tsmwebb@gmail.com"

On Mar 19, 9:44 am, tom <teejayev...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I did (- replacement) but I got a zillion pages, maybe I should have
> added a the modifier "good"
> thx,
> Tom

One thing to consider is that there are still reports of radio
interference with LEDs that have PWM type power supplies. The
suppliers of those lights aren't being very forthcoming on the
problems. One of them was quoted in PS recently and either was
ignorant of his own product or willing lie... Anyway, if you care
about RF test your unit with a cheap AM radio before you install
it.

-- Tom.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Capt Neal tracked down
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.boats.cruising/browse_thread/thread/4f110449465cc88b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 19 2008 1:11 pm
From: "Don White"

Capt Neal and his yellow with mauve interior Coronado were sighted recently.
No wonder so many Florida communities are trying to rid themselves of
transient boaters.
http://www.worth1000.com/emailthis.asp?entry=286038

==============================================================================

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Wednesday, March 19, 2008

25 new messages in 10 topics - digest

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